Last update: July 25, 1995: Split into G60, GTI & VR6 archives.
I collected a bunch of info on engine power upgrades for the US versions of the 1990-1992 Corrado G60. The power upgrades for the SLC and other cars are now stored in another archive..
In the NA, the only car available with a G60 equiped engine is the Corrado. In other parts of the world, a Passat G60, a Golf G60 and a Polo G40 are also available. VW Motor Sport also makes a G70, available for an outrageous price. It is unclear whether the mods described here will directly work for the other cars. The principle will be the same, but the parts/ECU may be different.
The main problem with the G60 Corrado is its weak low end, which most of these upgrades address.
I have also included personal impressions of these upgrades. This is not meant as an advertisement. I have NO affiliation with any of the listed sources.
I also included items from a posting by: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette(Contract))
See also G60_Chip_Specs, Performance FAQ, GTI_Power_Upgrades, VR6_Power_Upgrades, Wired_Hotrod, Intake_Mods, for more info.
jan@ug.eds.com
HOW THE CHIP WORKS (G60 & VR6)
There are several shops that sell performance upgrades in the US
(and probably Europe as well).
One is by AutoThority (AT, in VA) the other by Automotive Perf. Systems
(APS, in CA).
They both offer roughly the same packages, each of which boost
the power, though they use slightly different methods.
AutoThority also sells its chips (for less) thru AutoTech (CA)
and APS thru PlainWrap (for less) and others.
Note, there are also other chips available, such as from Advanced Motor Sport solutions and Superchips. However, I have virtually no testimonials about either of these, I cannot comment on their efficacy.
Essentially what the chips do is to "recurve" the ignition
curves and fuel maps.
According to an article in Wired magazine, the German chips
are generally programmed for smooth city driving while more
aggressive at the top end.
(see http://www.wired.com/Etext/2.05/features/silicon.hot.rod.html)
By advancing the ignition up to knock point you increase
power, most notably low end torque.
The result is ca 20% more low end torque and 10% more max power.
The penalty is that you have to use high octane gas, i.e.,
92 US CLC Octane (R+M/2).
Note that there is quite a debate now which chip is better.
According to a few sources, the AT chips are more delicately
tuned, while the APS chips are less radical.
APS also uses the same chip for their Stage II system while
AT offers different chips for each application.
AT also claims that they tune their chips along the entire range,
while APS concentrates more on the top end.
See the torque curves below for a comparison.
One of the things to keep in mind is that the chips are upgraded from time to time and some of the initial comments may not be true anymore...
Another thing to keep in mind is that the chips are not interchangeable
with other cars or even between model years. The maps are the same,
but the microcode in the chips are different.
HOW THE G60 PULLEY WORKS
The smaller G60 pulley makes the supercharger spin faster,
meaning that it will pump more air & gas mixture into your cylinders,
and therefore providing more power.
According to Aaron, both the APS & AutoThority pulley will spin
the G60 at around 13000 at the stock redline which is within
factory specifications. He recommended not to go any higher.
The downside is that the supercharger spins faster and therefore
more likely to wear out sooner.
However, here in the USA & Canada, speeds are limited to 65 mph
or 100 kmh, so generally people do not run at German autobahn
speeds for a long time.
Since the G60 is made to run at German autobahn speeds it is
therefore reasonably "safe" to make it spin faster for the
slower driving habbits in the US.
All pulley upgrades from reputable companies however ensure that
you remain within factory specs at maximum engine speed
(the original pulley only spins the G60 at 70% of its max).
You CAN buy smaller pulleys without the chips and the upgraded
fuel regulators.
This is a BAD idea because it causes the engine to run too lean
which apparently may damage them (don't ask me why).
Here is a note by Joe Funk (not Tim) from ND on this subject:
Left by: TIM HILDABRAND Replied # 129 Sent to: VANDENBRANDE Status: Public Topic: AMS & G60 Woes Rcvd: 12-03-94, 16:56
>Stuff about AMS & VR6 notes deleted, see the VR6 archives<
As for G-60 performance package the neuspeed pulley is the proper size for reliability and performance it spins in the factory 13,000 range. Autotechs kit is Autothority's kit the pulley is a copy of the Neuspeed size. We have dyno tested a lot of G-60 packages, we only sell the Neuspeed package it works great and it is legal. As for the G-60 cat failures we have seen 4 fail 3 were stock car just barely under the 70,000 mile warrantee the last failure was a 88,000 mile car with Neuspeed everything this one was out of warrantee , boy sure hard to blame Neuspeed when the only failure we have seen out last the stock cars. Cat failure are highest in 1.8 16v golf and Jetta's <at least that is what we see>. G-60 supercharger failures, we are about to replace our first one next month the car has 80,000 miles on it and has been Neuspeed stg2 since new. The blower had an extra small pulley (2.0 pulley) for a limited time and was over revved to end it's quite life , also was been running NOS like a bad drug habit. I get lots of calls for G-60 units but most are for used ones that failed with stock pulleys in the 70 -80k range.
Joe Funk
The CAM upgrade provides a bit more overlap (I think) and lift
which benefits mostly the upper end.
OVERVIEW: G60
Autothority claims the following for his kits [From Chuck Actor]: (All data and prices subject to change, no guarantee that any of this is correct).
Stage I: Just a chip.
175 HP for $375
CARB (EPA) approved, so I guess they don't pollute that much.
Stage II: Different chip, ~68 mm blower pulley and Bosch high pressure
fuel regulator 0 280 160 263.
201 HP for $595
Stage III: As II (though different) & a CAM
217 HP for $795
Note that you can buy the CAM separately for about 100$ from AutoTech,
and it has virtually the same specs as the more pricey APS one.
Note from Jan: I kind-a dispute the above figures... Stage I = 20% more torque at 2000 rpm (!!!), 11 more peak Hp. Stage II= 175 Hp peak.
Autothority will refund you the difference in $$$ if you upgrade from Stage I to Stage II, after you send in the original chip.
APS claims to have the following:
PChip: Chip swap
+11Hp for 250US$
CARB approved
Stage 2: Chip swap (same as the above), smaller pulley, thermostat
& muffler
190Hp at 595 US$
CARB approved
G60 CAM: A performance CAM that'll add more power at the top end.
199US$
CARB approved
See couple of the past issues of EuroCar (=VW&P). There are several articles + installations there, or call the above places, & they'll fax/send you the specs.
Which kit is better? Hard to say. Some say that the APS method is more
driveable but less power and noisier [ND, Hamill], while others
prefere the AT set up [Ron Wood].
After reading the Bosch FI handbook, AT seems to follow the text
almost to the letter.
Other recommended upgrades are:
Use a K&N filter and remove the "funnel tube" in the air box because
it restrict air flow.
(it slides right out the front of the air box, after you take the whole
box out first).
I [Jan] removed the funnel, the car seemed a tad more responsive BUT also
made the G60 wailing noise alot more apparent.
As you rev up to 3500 you get an eerie and loud woooOOOOOOUUUUUUOOOOooo.
I put the funnel back in.
Note that the later G60s are "tricked out" a whole lot more
(according to Mike Potter a Timmons VW in Long Beach) and produce about 10%
more power than their earlier versions (he tested both at APS's
dyno).
Among the changes are a larger crank pulley, effectively spinning
the G60 and all other things faster!
TORQUE CURVES
The following data was inferred from the torque graphs supplied by
AutoThority (yes, I just eye-balled the values, but the resulting graphs
are fairly close to theirs).
The data is in ft/lbs, and it show, (US) G60 Stock, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3,
and SLC Stock, SLC + AT Chip (SAT) and SLC + APS (SAP).
Note that I have no idea on the accuracy (or reliability) of any of these measurements.
RPM G60 AA1 AA2 AA3 SLC SAT SAP 1000 97 104 121 1500 117 124 147 147 2000 130 137 168 170 158 2500 140 147 182 190 161 3000 149 160 195 201 171 172 167 3500 157 165 197 204 183 186 187 4000 154 166 207 211 196 199 188 4500 156 162 200 205 197 203 208 5000 135 156 195 200 191 202 193 5500 135 145 175 195 185 188 180 6000 125 131 132 155 166 169 167 6500 106 125 142
Using some smoothing, interpolation & making up some points, I got the following curves:
G60: Torque = 48.127 + 5.57E-2 x RPM - 7.19E-6 x RPM^2 AA1: Torque = 52.964 + 5.76E-2 x RPM - 7.42E-6 x RPM^2 AA2: Torque = 37.879 + 9.03E-2 x RPM - 1.22E-5 x RPM^2 AA3: Torque = 32.821 + 9.23E-2 x RPM - 1.19E-5 x RPM^2 SLC: Torque = 63.750 + 4.43E-2 x RPM - 1.62E-7 x RPM^2 - 7.21E-10 x RPM^3 SAT: Torque = 68.374 + 3.55E-2 x RPM + 3.68E-6 x RPM^2 - 1.12E-9 x RPM^3
All the data fitted with 96% or better Pierson Correlation Coeff. (Better fit with 3rd degree equation)
>From jan@ug.eds.com:
I have Autotech's Stage 1 chip, and am quite happy with it.
The car feels alot better at the low end, and pulls almost frighteningly at freeway speeds [Caveat: After driving an SLC, it's still quite a way off]
I used Stage 1 because the car is still in warrantee, and it's an easy and almost invisible (to a mechanic) change.
Added Benefit: My gas mileage actually improved a bit because I can stay in lower gears longer.
If there is one upgrade to get, this is it.
Jan
In article <1991Dec5.132252.1@dev7.mdcbbs.com>, jan@dev7.mdcbbs.com writes: |> I installed the Autothority stage one chip in my Corrado a couple |> of days ago. The chip modifies the ignition and fuel map |> to take advantage of 92 octane gas, thereby giving the |> car a 20% increase in low end torque, and about a 10% increase |> in top end power.
I've been considering a chip modification like this and would
appreciate opinions on this and other, similar products. I understand
a company called Neuspeed has a chip modification available
for Corrados.
Does anyone have experience with that product to share? I'm likely
to wind up with one or the other and would like some comparison
(even if subjective and second-hand) before I plunk down my money.
Also....
|>
|> Installation was straightforward, but not really easy.
|> It's a very tight fit to get the ECU out and back into
|> to the car, but patience works.
|>
Any other (more specific) hints and gotchas?
|> The very low end (1000 rpm) is a little bit better, but
|> soon above that, power comes on much quicker than before.
|> At medium range, e.g. highway range (the car turns ~2500 rpm
|> at 55mph) throttle responce has improved alot.
|> The high end is scary (my wife drove it and
|> commented "this is dangerous").
|>
Is there any change to the maximum speed imposed by the rev-limiter? Is the rev-limiter less abrupt in its behavior?
|> On the down side, I can see why VW opted with the "detuned"
|> version, and why they think 160 Hp is about the limit on FWD.
|> From a standing start, the wheels spin, steering is a bit
|> of a handful because of it. 4WD or traction control is
|> definately needed.
|>
Do you experience torque-steer? In what way does the steering become a handful?
|> So far, I am happy with the swap.
|> The low end was really bothering me.
|>
|> Jan
|>
|> jan@lipari.usc.edu
|> vandenbrande@fshpp1.mdcbbs.com
|> jan@dev7.mdcbbs.com being phased out!
Tom Borman BMW R100RS,R100T VW Corrado (borman@twisted.metaphor.com <or> {...}!decwrl!metaphor!borman)
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Subject: Hot Corrados
Message-ID: <65381@bbn.BBN.COM>
>From: jhamill@bbn.com (John Hamill)
Date: 29 Jul 91 14:55:16 GMT
Reply-To: jhamill@BBN.COM (John Hamill)
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!explain why it well down on torque compared with the equivalent Golf. !We only have the 16V & G60 versions of the Corrado here. There is no !basic 8V version, unlike the truly pathetic Calibra - maybe there !should be ? BTW, I've seen ads in the UK for G60 mods giving 195bhp !by a chip change, for c.300 pounds. Other current mods include smaller !G-lader pulley & uprated bearings to increase pressure (it spins
The Neuspeed kit brings the G-60 up to 185 hp through the use of exhaust modifications, smaller supercharger pulley, and a micro-fueler addition to the fuel-injection. They also include a 180 deg thermostat and fan switch. Seems like a pretty complete kit. I don't think I would want to take the G-lader apart to upgrade the bearings. Neuspeed seems to feel they aren't pushing the supercharger into the danger zone with their kit. Seems as though the Corrado would be a waste of car with the basic 8v motor. I think a 2.0 liter 16v would be viable if VW brought this motor up in power a bit more. I would think they could comfortably get 150-170hp without the use of superchargers etc. Oh well, the VR6 is here now.... John
In article <1991Dec5.132252.1@dev7.mdcbbs.com> jan@dev7.mdcbbs.com writes: >One of the things I had not counted on was that the ECU >screws and nuts are marked with paint. >Naturally, opening the unit breaks those seals, probably >voiding warrantee. I am currently looking for a paint that >will match it. (It's glossy reddish brown paint, and the >only thing that I have found that matches it closely is >body primer -- except that's a dull finish). >Any suggestions?
What you describe sounds like a product called Glyptol. It is painted onto potentiometers and other adjustable electronic parts so the technician can tell if someone's been fiddling with the unit. You should be able to get it at better electronic shops. By the way, acetone thins it.
Karen Black
In article <1991Jul31.124948.2635@uw.com>, dnanian@uw.com (Dave Nanian) writes:
|>
|> Anyway, the timing and injection stuff can be modified by purchasing a new
|> Digifant (Bosch) chip from Autothority in Virginia. Although it requires 92
|> octane gasoline, it does improve the performance of the engine -- and they've
|> reworked the throttle curve a bit to make it "feel" peppier.
|>
Does anyone know if a "chip-swap" option is available for the GLI/GTI? I know Dinan Engineering was working on one, but I haven`t heard anything lately. Is there any other manufacturer that currently has one available? Anybody have any experience/opinions about performance enhancement achieved by a simple chip change?
Kenneth finnegan@navo.navy.mil `````````````````````````````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''````````````````````````````````````````` P.S.-> Route flames to 127.0.0.1
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Corrado Power Enhancements
Message-ID: <37794@mimsy.umd.edu>
>From: alyoon@tove.cs.umd.edu (Aloysius Yoon)
Date: 8 Aug 91 14:00:33 GMT
Reply-To: alyoon@tove.cs.umd.edu (Aloysius Yoon)
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Keywords: Corrado GLI GTI chip
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>
>Does anyone know if a "chip-swap" option is available for the GLI/GTI?
>I know Dinan Engineering was working on one, but I haven`t heard anything
>lately. Is there any other manufacturer that currently has one available?
>Anybody have any experience/opinions about performance enhancement achieved
>by a simple chip change?
>
Once again, I hate to sound like Autothority salesman, but they are working on one now. But it's on their low prority list. Our last VW club meeting was held there, and they gave us the tour of their place, and explained to us what they were doing. It was very interesting.
--Al
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:31:15 GMT
>From: JFIGURA@hcs.ca
Subject: G60 chip
Hi Trevor,
My name is Jurgen, I thought I'd mail direct since I can't seem to post. I have a '90 G60 and put the auto-thority stage-I chip in this summer. So far I have had absolutely nothing but grins from this product. A fellow I work with has an identical car to mine (sans chip) so he keeps me honest as to my perceived gain in performance. The biggest single improvement is bottom end torque and the higher rev limiter allows for nice 6500rpm shifts (I haven't tested the 7500 limit). Needless to say I can beat the stock Corrado every time. The only thing it's costing me so far is a little more fuel consumption. I had originally considered getting the stage-II but was scared off by one of the VW shops, which has seen two G60's with blown motors due to the Neuspeed stage-II kit which uses the same smaller super charger pulley. I think the stage-II kit's just creates too much boost at high rpm to keep the motor reliable, then again I have no idea just how hard those guys were pushing it. I purchased the Autothority chip for $250 and installed it myself in 1/2 hr, probably the cheapest and easiest performance mod on the market (IMHO).
Jurgen Figura Health Care Systems
jfigura@hcs.ca Richmond, BC, Canada
(604) 244-3211
"For-a-fig-newton"
<<<< standard disclaimer here >>>>
Name : Trevor Paquette | Landmark/ITA | _\___ Fahrvergnuegen Email: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada | / \____ Visitor from CyberSpace | (403) 269-4669 |/ G60 \
Renegade of Virtual Reality | #include <disclaimer.h> |\-O------O--/
Date: 20 Jan 93 12:21:47 EST (Wed)
Subject: G60 chips
>From: C Hapeman <cjh@garage.att.com>
I looked into things a couple of months ago. Neuspeed was cheaper at $250, AutoAuthority was $325, if I remember. I called both companies up: Neuspeed appeared very arrogant on the phone and AutoAthority was nice. Asking for brochures on the product, Neuspeed said our's is best just talk to those who use us, AutoAuthority sent a letter with estimated hp and torque increases etc. You can find their numbers in any issue of European Car.
AutoAuthority offers an upgrade policy, if you buy Stage I and later purchase stage II you can return Stage I for a rebate thing. I would look closely before going with Stage II, the G-Pully change is somewhat drastic and may effect long term engine wear. I believe AutoAuthority also has a 30 day money back guarantee, not sure about Neuspeed.
Stage I basically changes the gas/air mixture and some other twiks, they demand that you run on only 92 or 93 and higher octane gas. I believe this is way VW didn't put the changes in the stock car, they didn't want G60's dieing at 70K because drivers were trying to get by with cheaper gas. Some people I talked to said if you already use the right gas go with the upgraded chip, it will make the car run cleaner and all in all be better for the car.
As a conclusion I couldn't get a feel for which companies' chips were better. They do basically the same thing so my bet is they are for all intensive purposes the same. BTW, I'm waiting for the spring and will get the AutoAuthority Stage I and test it out, if the change is not what I want I'll give it back within the 30 day limit.
Please let me know what you find or get back to me with further questions.
CJ Hapeman
cjh@garage.att.com
Eventhough I am the most recent person to install Stage II and most of the messages here are chronologically, I decided to put this one up front because it includes installation hints:
Well, I finally got around to installing an AA Stage II kit
on my Corrado G60.
The procedure was relatively simple, I did not need any special
tools.
I first did the pulley, figuring this would be the worst. First I removed the air filter box w/o any problems. Then I loosened the G60 pulley bolt by giving my wrench a slight tap. The inertia of the belt kept the pulley from moving. Later I discovered that the original pulley had two holes on the inner flange, presumably to immobilize it.
Next came the belt.
VW uses a special tool that looks like a squarish version of a
small C-clamp to compress the alternator pulley to release
tension on the serpentine belt.
I used a 18inch adjustable C-clamp on a slightly different location
without any problems.
First remove the belt from the idler pulley and then you can pull it
off the G60 pulley.
To remove the pulley, I gently used a flat crow bar to slide it off.
The new pulley did not fit at first because of the coating on the
hole. I used some sandpaper to clean it out and coated it with oil.
Next I probably made a mistake but I had to tap the pulley with a
rubber hammer onto the G60 axle.
It may be unhealthy for those bearings...next time use a long
screw to simple press it in.
The final 1/2" or so I used the original screw to press the pulley
in.
I used a very small dab of loctite on the bolt to make sure it
wont fly off.
Then I reinstalled the belt.
The fuel regulator was next. It's on the passenger side of the
FI rail. Two screws, two tubes is all it takes. Some fuel leaked
out, so be careful.
The new one looks exactly like the original.
Then finally came the chip. That's easy, and I have done it a couple
times by now.
The whole process took me about 2 hours of steady work, 1/2 of which
is spent with the ECU.
Next came the test drive, after making sure that no fuel was spraying all over the place.
The car has gained significant power...
The low end is very improved, not quite like the VR6 but almost.
Midrange is about the same as the VR6, and the top end is
feels more than the VR6.
However, that's not all that good for several reasons.
First of all, I think it's too much power for FWD w/o traction control.
When accelating in first (from a coast) the wheels will just
start spinning around 4000 rpms. Same with 2nd gear (and I am
not talking about popping the clutch at high revs).
The second problem is noise.
The G60 drone is alot more noticable. At lower rpms
it's just a low VVVVVOOOOO, at high rpms it's more like
an F15 taking of.
It makes you want to avoid the higher rpms!
On the other hand, I end up staying in lower gears longer
because there is so much more pull.
What I used to do in one gear I can now do in the next
higher (stay in 3 rd instead of switching to 2nd).
So to get the same effect as before you do not have to rev the engine
as much.
Before the installation, pulling in 5th from 60 to 80 mph took
about 9.9 secs, now about 8.5 secs.
I did not get a chance to measure the 3rd gear time from
40-60 (Peter! was about 4.6 +/-.15 stock) because I dropped the
stopwatch between the seats.
I do get significant variances in these measurements though...
As far as engine temp, normal driving did not seem to have affected
it all that much.
Consumption seems a bit down (1 or 2 mpg) wrt Stage I, but then you also tend
to use the available power more readily (which probably dumps
a ton fuel).
All in all, it did make the car more responsive, though noisier.
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Stage II (AA)
References: <26lj62INNepa@lynx.unm.edu> <TPAQUETTE.93Sep9101354@elvis.ita.lgc.com>
In article <TPAQUETTE.93Sep9101354@elvis.ita.lgc.com> tpaquette@ita.lgc.com writes:
>jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>
>> Well, I finally got around to installing an AA Stage II kit
>> on my Corrado G60.
>
> .. procedures deleted...
>
>> The car has gained significant power...
>> The low end is very improved, not quite like the VR6 but almost.
>
> But the question is...
> Was it worth it??
Worth is cost vs benefit.
Let me first answere the cost:
> What was the cost??
I was previously driving a Stage I kit, and the upgrade only cost 150 US$ WITH tax because of the sale at AutoTech. So I am certainly willing to experiment for 150US$.
The benefit is a much more driveable and powerful car, actually,
it's a bit too powerful.
It's also more noisy, which is a bit annoying, and I am a bit concerned
at higher rpms. It also uses more gas and provides the opportunity
to really suck up alot of gas, though on my sedate commute on
the highway last night (except for a couple of spurts), I was
getting 29 mpg @ 65-70mph. If you drive like a bat out of hell,
you get closer to 19 mpg.
All changes are easy to do, and easily reversable.
The car now produces my former stock peak torque value around 2000 rpms
(was 4000 rpms), so there is no need to keep the revs up as high
as before.
The new torque peak still occurs around 4000 rpms, but 210 or so
ft/lbs vs ~160.
This all means alot less footwork in the traditional LA yo-yo type of
traffic.
Both Stage I & II are smoother and more gradual in power delivery than the stock chip (the stock chip has several small dips in torque output).
So to answere your question whether it was worth it...it's
really too early.
I am not 100% satisfied as yet. Just would like to reduce the noise
a bit. Perhaps Dynamat would help.
Before you go out and buy one of these upgrades, several people (Chris Lagatuta at New Dimensions, John Hamlin) have commented that the APS kit is better and more drivable though it produces less power. That kit is however alot more invasive as more hardware changes are needed (thermostat, couple switches, exhaust, etc.). The AA mods look totally stock.
If you are thinking of an SLC vs a G60 + kit, the SLC still wins easily.
> Could we periodic updates from you on this as well??
Sure.
> I just saw your second response to Trevor.
>
> I'd still be interested in hearing your thoughts on
> Stage I vs. Stage II though (i.e. knowing what you do now, would you go
> right to Stage II, or stay with Stage I for day to day driveability...)
>
> -Jeff
I am debating this myself right now...
If it weren't for the increased noise and vibrations I'd probably
stay with Stage II.
However, because of those issues, I am not sure at this point.
The high end is almost scary...almost uncontrollable.
Perhaps the APS set up is better, I'll see if I can negotiate
something with them.
The car is alot more drivable with Stage II, the low end is
alot better than the Stage I.
Stage I is a definite improvement over the stock chips,
though still a bit lacking in low end, and the
Stock chip is absolutely a bear to drive after S I.
I'd say start with Stage I, that's an absolute minimum...
Besides, you get a full refund with both places
(AA & APS) when you upgrade to S II or III.
The problem is that my wife has an SLC, and going between the two (before SII) is a big jump...I often forget what car I am in and sometimes want to do things I can do in the SLC but not in the G60. Still, the SLC is by far the better car. If VW ever decides to drop the VR6 into the new Cabr. I may get that instead. The new cab is absolutely adorable (I was involved in a pre-production evaluation).
--
Jan Vandenbrande
In article <1992May7.023318.14947@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st883787@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes: >I'm getting a 90 Corrado in the next week, and would like to know the >differance between the Stage I kit and the Stage II kit. Stage I is just a >chip right? What is stage II, does it completely destroy your warranty? >Someone posted that Stage II gives a 7.4 sec 0-60 time, what does Stage I >do for 0-60? Any and all info appreciated.
Stage I is a chip upgrade, AutoThority's Stage II is a smaller
G-60 pulley, high pressure fuel regulator, and chip. Neuspeed's Stage II
is a pulley, Gillet exhaust, fuel enrichment system, and lower temp
fan switch and thermostat. Neuspeed also has a chip upgrade, called the
P-chip.
Stage I from either company gives better driveability with an
average 5.5 hp gain. It won't make that much 0-60 difference. Stage II
provides dramatic differences in acceleration and response, and could
conceivably wreck your warrenty if you blow the motor. I have found
that the engine seems to handle the extra power rather effortlessly,
with no radical behavior differences or temperature anomalies.
jh
>From lll-winken!uwm!bbn!spca.bbn.com!jhamill@decwrl Sat Apr 4 09:43 PST 1992
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>From: lll-winken!uwm!bbn!spca.bbn.com!jhamill@decwrl
Subject: Re: Corrado P-chip
To: jan@camhpp12
Message-Id: <9204041550.AA25644@uu.psi.com>
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
X-Envelope-To: jan@CAMHPP12
Status: RO
I have heard of knock problems also with
the AutoThority Stage II. I have also heard of problems with the Neuspeed
Stage II, things like unburnt fuel coming out in flames from the tailpipe
when deccelerating. It's hard to know who to believe. The Neuspeed kit
fools the the computer into thinking it's in a cold start mode,
which will deliver more fuel but seems hokey. I think the chip is the
better approach. I also plan on doing the cam, and the AutoThority folks
said they would custom tune my chip for it. They also have exhaust and
their own cam design coming in the future. I should have the kit installed
next weekend, then I'll have firsthand knowledge of what the heck this
thing is going to do to my engine (hopefully not blow it up). If it seems
dissapointing I can always return it in 30 days.
One thing I am really itching to do is upgrade the motor to
a 2 liter. That would erradicate all torque deficiency in one fell swoop.
It would cost some bucks though, but I would still be way under what a
new VR6 Corrado goes for.
John
>From uunet!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!ulysses!ulysses.att.com!doug Mon May 11 09:56:53 PDT 1992
Article: 5234 of rec.autos.vw
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: SLC Corrado review (again)
Message-ID: <16610@ulysses.att.com>
>From: doug@ulysses.att.com (G. Douglas Humphrey[drew])
Date: 8 May 92 21:05:31 GMT
Sender: netnews@ulysses.att.com
Followup-To: doug@ulysses.att.com
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Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
Keywords: AutoThority G-60 Corrado Sounds
Lines: 36
In reply to jhamill@BBN.COM (John Hamill):
|> I think an all out race between a SLC and Stage II equipped
|>G-60 would be an interesting one, I would probably also need a
|>mild cam to keep the power up above 5000rpm, then I might be
|>able to beat it. But I would take the sweet sound of the SLC over
|>my droning supercharger anyday. Also, to anyone considering doing
|>the Stage II conversion, keep in mind that since you are installing
|>a smaller pulley on the supercharger, the droning sound gets even
|>louder.
|>
|>jh
I would disagree with John. I have a G-60 w/an AT Stage II kit and I would tell you that it emits a much more aggressive tone when you put your foot down. When the stock G-60 used to sound a bit strained the AT II "growls".
I would encourage EVERYONE with a G-60 to upgrade to the AutoThority Stage II kit. I have seen no drop in MPG or rise in oil consumption. I have found that I buy more gas because I love to drive the car. My smile has gotten twice as big too. I would say that the only adverse affect of getting this kit is that my wallet is $575 lighter (plus installation costs). Do it!
While I'm at it I'll plug the Neuspeed 25mm front sway bar. It fixes the body roll of the stock G-60 and shows you what the definition of "cornering power" is!
I will admit to lusting after the shifter and the revised spring &
bushing rates of the VR6 Corrado...
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| G. Douglas Humphrey | Internet Email: doug@ulysses.att.com | | AT&T Bell Laboratories | UUnet Email: ..!uunet!ulysses!doug | | 600 Mountain Avenue, MH7B511 | Office Phone: (908)582-6473 | | Murray Hill, New Jersey 07974 | Office FAX: (908)582-2456 | +------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Imagination is more important than knowledge -Albert Einstein |
| Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier |
>From att!MDCBBS.COM!jan Tue, 12 May 1992 00:41 PDT >From: Jan Vandenbrande <jan@MDCBBS.COM>
>> My Words(Doug Humphrey):
>>I would encourage EVERYONE with a G-60 to upgrade to the AutoThority Stage II
kit.
>>I have seen no drop in MPG or rise in oil consumption.
>Yeah, I have the AT I, which can be exchanged + some $$ for AT II.
>I'll wait till my warrantee runs out.
>I am a bit concerned with the rumored knock problem of the AT II &
>increased wear.
>Any comments?
My car does not knock. If I put shit gas in it I'd bet it would though! The wear
issue
is a bit tougher to quantify. Every production engine is under-stressed for long
evity
and the Germans tend to build stout plants in the first place. I know that its a
tiny
little 1.8L four but it has a long tradition of durability. Remember that this e
ngine
is built to be sold worldwide and we have much nicer roads & more availability t
o
parts, service, and vital care products than in most countries. It's actually a
tribute
to this little engine's stoutness that it could be super-charged at all!
>
>Anyway, the timing and injection stuff can be modified by purchasing a new
>Digifant (Bosch) chip from Autothority in Virginia. Although it requires 92
>octane gasoline, it does improve the performance of the engine -- and they've
>reworked the throttle curve a bit to make it "feel" peppier.
>
>You also get about 15-20% better gas mileage, as a bonus. And you'll still
>pass inspection, no problem.
>
>They also have another chip that works in conjunction with a smaller pulley
>to improve horsepower very considerably -- without radically reworking the
>wiring the way the APS upgrade does. Just replace the pulley and chip and
>go. Don't have any experience with it, though.
>
The second kit that Dave is talking about here also includes a fuel regulator from Porsche 944s. Couple of my friends have this stage II kit in their, and compared to my girl friend's stock Corrado, it's just unbelievable. There is so much torque available at low rpms, and the power delivery is very smooth and progressive. They used Varicom, a car performance measuring computer, to test 0-60, and the result was 7.1 or 7.2 sec with skinny stock tires doing lots of wheel spin. On autothority's dyno, the horsepower increased to about 190bhp. So, If I had a Corrado, this stage II kit would be the first thing on the option list.
--Al
PS. To a fellow netter who recently purchased a yellow Corrado in CA
For some reason, I can't send mail to you. The mailer daemon
complaints that there is "no such user." So for more info, call
Autothority in Fairfax, VA, they will be glad to talk to you.
In article <1991Jul30.105932.29463@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu (Tom Haapanen) writes:
> jan@dev7d.mdcbbs.com writes:
> > My impression is that [Corrado] ignition could be adavanced a whole lot
> > more before the knock sensor kicks in (does the Euro Cor. have a
> > knock sensor?)
>
> Also, does anyone know how to change the rear spoiler activation from the
> North American 45 mph (72 km/h) to the European 90 km/h (56 mph)? My brother
> just moved to Europe, taking his Corrado with him, and over there (as here,
> too, IMHO) a spoiler that goes up at 70 km/h is a bit dorky.
>
> P.S. Jan -- what's your proper mail address? mdcbbs.com keeps bouncing
mail...
>
> [ \tom haapanen --- university of waterloo --- tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu ]
> [ "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
I'm following up to a slightly incorrect article; sorry about that.
Anyway, the timing and injection stuff can be modified by purchasing a new Digifant (Bosch) chip from Autothority in Virginia. Although it requires 92 octane gasoline, it does improve the performance of the engine -- and they've reworked the throttle curve a bit to make it "feel" peppier.
You also get about 15-20% better gas mileage, as a bonus. And you'll still pass inspection, no problem.
They also have another chip that works in conjunction with a smaller pulley to improve horsepower very considerably -- without radically reworking the wiring the way the APS upgrade does. Just replace the pulley and chip and go. Don't have any experience with it, though.
--
Dave Nanian, UnderWare, Inc. (dnanian@uw.com, uunet!uw!dnanian)
NeXT Mail Preferred, but any mail cheerfully accepted.
--
Dave Nanian, UnderWare, Inc. (dnanian@uw.com, uunet!uw!dnanian)
>From uunet!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!news.bbn.com!news Tue Apr 14 16:01:25 PDT 1992
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: AutoThority Stage II
Message-ID: <kuj7haINN97m@news.bbn.com>
>From: jhamill@BBN.COM (John Hamill)
Date: 13 Apr 1992 14:43:54 GMT
Reply-To: jhamill@BBN.COM (John Hamill)
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Well, I went and installed the AutoThority Stage II kit in my Corrado this weekend. I bought and installed this kit with some reservations and visions of my supercharger self destructing, or maybe a piston flying through the hood... I did the installation at my dad's garage with several VW technicians watching me every step of the way (they only get to do oil changes on Corrado's at this point of their product life) so watching someone rip apart the Digifant computer was interesting to them. The AutoThority kit is fairly easy to install if you have a fully equipped garage at hand, even if you don't the only thing you need to do it is an air impact wrench. You must be careful and take your time, you're playing with an expensive motor and delicate things. I got the kit installed in two hours, one hour going to changing the chip, the other to changing the supercharger pulley and fuel regulator. Impressions: well all I can say is, VR6's WATCH OUT! The car will launch explosively in all gears now at almost all rpms. The increase in supercharger speed means that the car responds at low rpm much, much better. It is much easier to get out in traffic now without having to floor it and wait for the rpms to come up. On the highway, the engine seems to have to labor much less with the cruise control when going up hills. The engine has more power whether the boost is on or not, due to the higher fuel delivery and advanced timing. It feels a lot more like driving the VR6. The big mushy spot from 1/4 to about 3/4 of the way down on the gas pedal is pretty much eliminated. My highway gas mileage actually went up with this kit, my city mileage still remains the same (about 20).
Benefits:
Throttle response immediate
Gas mileage went up to 30.6 on highway
More farhvergnugen
Fairly easy to install
Car is just as docile and well behaved when driven
normally.
Fewer parts to install than APS's stage II
Kit is based on the chip, not an add-on analog
fuel enrichment system like Neuspeed's.
Non-benefits
Probably destroyed any notion of a warrenty
G-60 spinning faster - noisier, might wear out faster
Temptation to accelerate like a bat out of hell
Might wear out engine mounts faster, also the seat
backs are taking more of a strain holding you up
from the high g-forces.
Doesn't include an exhaust upgrade
If anyone has more specific questions, feel free to email me. BTW, I bought the kit from AutoTech, not AutoThority itself, because AutoTech has a 10% off sale on them right now. I called AutoThority and they seemed psyched to support the kit, and I told them I was thinking of using Neuspeed's supercharger cam, they said fine, let us know and we will send you a chip tuned for the cam. They are working on an exhaust upgrade also. jh
>From lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@DECWRL Wed Apr 15 08:11 PDT 1992
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 9:02:09 EDT
>From: John Hamill <lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@DECWRL>
Subject: Re: AutoThority Stage II
To: jan@CAMHPP12
Message-Id: <9204151303.AA10327@uu.psi.com>
X-Envelope-To: jan@FSHPP1
Status: RO
No, haven't heard any knock. The engine temp has remained the
same also. The car is so much more responsive, it's great. All
complaints about lack of response that I had with it are gone.
The cooling system seems to be under no more of a strain at all.
I would say that the lower temp thermostat and fan switch Neuspeed
provides in his kit are largely unneccessary. When I drove my Corrado
hard before I installed Stage II, the oil temp would hit the 220's. I
haven't seen it go higher yet. What's really amazing is that your
highway gas mileage goes up noticably. To maintain 65 mph requires a
bare touch on the gas pedal.
John
>From lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@decwrl Thu Apr 16 08:10 PDT 1992
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 10:05:38 EDT
>From: John Hamill <lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@decwrl>
Subject: Re: AutoThority Stage II
To: jan@camhpp12
Message-Id: <9204161428.AA01706@batcher.psi.com>
X-Envelope-To: jan@CAMHPP12
Status: RO
I was told by a VW technician that as soon as I installed
stage 1 I had already voided the warrenty by opening the computer
box, hence my decision to go for stage II. Of course, hiding a
chip change is a lot easier than a pulley, although my engine
still looks very stock to anyone not knowing what to look for.
I have been using natural oil, 10-40 and 20-50 up to
the present (Quaker State), and will probably switch to Mobil-1
soon. My roommate used that slick stuff in his last oil change
and said it made a difference to his engine. I don't think I
need to use it if I switch to synthetic.
It's pretty amazing that with the extra 30 hp my engine
temps still seem the same as before. I highly recommend this
kit - go for it!
John
>From lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@DECWRL Thu Apr 16 15:01 PDT 1992
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 17:05:25 EDT
>From: John Hamill <lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@DECWRL>
Subject: Re: Stage II
To: jan@CAMHPP12
Message-Id: <9204162122.AA25011@uu.psi.com>
X-Envelope-To: jan@FSHPP1
Status: RO
I made backups of all my chips, the original VW chip, the Neuspeed P-chip, and my AutoThority Stage II chip. It's pretty easy if you have access to a Data I/O or something similiar. Have you played with the suspension yet? John
>From lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@DECWRL Thu Apr 16 15:01 PDT 1992
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 17:08:11 EDT
>From: John Hamill <lll-winken!uwm!bbn!jhamill@DECWRL>
Subject: Re: Stage II
To: jan@CAMHPP12
Message-Id: <9204162122.AA25048@uu.psi.com>
X-Envelope-To: jan@FSHPP1
Status: RO
Another thing I have is the dissassembled EPROM listings for
all these chips. It's interesting to examine the program for the
68HC11 microprocessor and how the tuners modify the fuel and ignition
maps.
John
In rec.autos.vw you write:
> Has anyone bought one of them? What is the differnece between them, > and what do you get with them?
I sold a couple of used stage one's before (as a retailer), basically stage one contains only a chip, but stage two contains a chip and a bunch of hardwares like pulley, mufflers, themostate, etc..
> The Stage II kit supposedly includes a 'smaller belt' for the super-charger > to make it spin faster. What would this do to it? Any horror stories from > anyone?o
I have heard horror stories about stage II kits overheated the charger and blew up the engine. I only recommend chips + cams + exhuast but not the stage 2 kit. The stage 2 kit is very lumpy when it doesn't blow up. :)
> Cost/dealers and horsepower gains would be great if you could list them.
the stage one chip is excellent, it gives a solid 11hp gain, and a 33% increase in low-end torque (where a gain is needed most). A new Authority could cost over $300 CND for a dealer.
A Neuspeed cam promises 15hp, and is a very mild cam, cost about $300 also
A stage II Autothority promises 27hp, and it would cost well over $1200.
A Neuspeed stage II also gives out 27hp, and it is about $800.
Frankly, I don't know whether Neuspeed or Autot. is better, I used to think Autot. was better, but some people told me that Neuspeeds are just as good if not better.
Hope it helps...
Alaric
>From doug@ulysses.ATT.COM Fri Aug 28 13:06 PDT 1992
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Date: 28 Aug 1992 15:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
>From: doug@ulysses.ATT.COM
Subject: Re: Corrado questions
To: jan@MDCBBS.COM
Cc: jdt@bugs.rmd.com, quillen@fccc.edu
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Status: RO
Jan-
Howdy. My car is running well, if a bit roughly lately, I think it just needs a little Techron or new plugs. Still puts down the power like a stock G(utless)-60 could never dream to. No problems. Never burns oil. (I just switched to Mobil 1) I think the valves might be getting a teensy bit louder but this might be my imagination. (Or I need a tune-up.) It does ping a slight bit at 3/4 throttle but now I'm being picky.
My transmission is getting harder to shift but it wasn't a joy to begin with so I suspect that this might be wear & tear on the synchros.
My luck isn't so good...It just seems to be a dent magnet lately. 8^(
I have sat in but never driven a VR6 Corrado yet.
Article 32022 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unbc.edu!cow!pig
>From: Finn <finn@shoreline.ca>
Subject: Re: VW H20 8V non-CIS injection
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Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 19:58:50 GMT
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>I am interested in fitting Bosch electronic injectors in my VW 8V head >which currently has those skinny CIS injectors. Why? I want (need!) to >run a Haltech F5 injecton system to try and fix some severe fuel delivery >problems.
>This was due to the supplimental injected fuel >trying to turn the relatively sharp corner from the throttle body into #3 >& #4 (the manifold was designed as a dry flow manifold and thus did not >account for the momentum effects of fuel droplets).
Electromotive makes a nice setup that includes direct ignition that looks like it would do exactly what you want. I'm planning on using a TEC-II system with direct ignition on my 88 Civic (will most likely be using an Aerodyne Aerocharger). I never really liked the injection system on my Motronic 16v Golf or Digifant II G60. The VR6 Motronic with a MAF sensor is a nice setup except for the distributor and the fact that it's non-sequential. On my old G60 I managed to melt a piston down somehow so I took the opertunity to bore it to 82mm with Techtonics pistons, 144mm oiler rods, 16v flywheel, clutch, 2Y gearbox with rod linkage, 260/420 cam, 68mm blower pulley and the 944 Turbo fuel pressure regulater. Tip for any of you G60 owners who think $500 or whatever is a bit much for a pulley and a pressure regulator. I had machine shop make a duplicate of a friends Neuspeed pulley for $50, and the regulators Bosch part # is 0 280 160 263 from a 944 Turbo and cost me $85 can. The cam was from Autotech and is the same as APS's for half the price ($99). The chip I suppose you ought to buy since it is software, but I have an Eprom burner... California Imports sells the G60 stage III kits for a little over 8 bills and the same stuff cost me about $250, surely someone is making quite a tidy profit here. After all was said and done, the car was ok but I don't think supercharging is the answer. If I was going to spend that much time/effort etc. on a Corrado again I would do a 2L 16v with aftermarket injection/ignition, and an Aerodyne turbo. And I would keep the 02A gearbox, add the later style spacers and the VR6 balance weight b/c it has more favorable ratios for a done up motor. As to your original question, the Bosch injectors fit on the 16v head so my guess is they would fit on your 8v head, but if not, a digifant head shouldn't be hard to come by... :) Shawn @ Ron's Parts had an Audi Turbo manifold on his G60 Cabrio which is supposed to make a Big difference in top end breathing which you might want to look into. They seem to be all the rage around here but I've never tried one out myself...anyone have any opinions or flowbench figures on this setup?
Return-Path: <eafg034@ea.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: AUTOTHORITY STAGE III KITS (fwd)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
Mime-Version: 1.0
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My own Autothority experience:
Just two days ago, I installed an Autothority Stage II kit in my '90 G60. This kit consists of pulley, chip and uprated fuel pressure regulator. Before that, I had a Stage I, which is a chip only.
Stage I was better than stock in every way. Started better, ran better, better fuel economy, better power, but perhaps most of all, much improved smoothness and quicker throttle response. The only downside is that according to Autothority, you can't use < 92 octane gas. I didn't before, anyway.
If Stage I was noticeable yet subtle, like a bit of ginger perhaps, Stage II was more like a nose full of cayenne. The engine feels and sounds entirely different. Whereas G60 and G60 Stage I are pretty quick, G60 Stage II feels like it could outsprint most cars. Brutal, a bit dangerous, and oh so sexy. Hold onto that wheel when you tromp the gas! ;-)
More sound coming from the engine, especially at highway speeds, but IMO the sound has more character than it did before.
We'll see what I have to say about the sound after I take a little road trip, which I'm doing soon.
One person I've talked to says Stage III (same as above + cam) makes all the difference in the high end. Another says it's not worth it.
Alex
In article <5MAY199421262253@elroy.uh.edu> mjs02324@elroy.uh.edu (94S02324) writes: >I called APS, got what seemed like a teenager on the phone telling >me that the folks at Autothority are just a bunch of f*****g computer hackers, etc. >I wonder, since they(Autothority) did manage to figure out how to enrich the fuel >mixture w/out tricking the cold start valve..... (like neuspeed does) >Autothority uses just a pulley and chip. Must be something to it! >
Yeah, APS has a couple of little bratty f*ckheads who answer the phone.
I just ignore them and ask to speak to Aaron. The information the little brats
give is usually wrong too.
I can give some contrast on both the AutoThority and APS G-60 kits
since I've installed both. They both work quite well, the AutoThority kit
giving a little more power at the price of some driveability. The APS kit
delivers smoother power, but is more involved to install. Installing the
APS kit requires some cutting of the engine wiring harness, whereas the
AutoThority kit does not. Both kits make a lot of power. One thing
annoying and a feature at the same time is that the Gillet exhaust
upgrade that comes with the APS kit is good for 7 hp, but it drones
quite badly at some RPM ranges and makes the interior noisy.
jh
Article 31900 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: G60 NewSpeed Upgrades
Message-ID: <CpJK92.AnH@pts.mot.com>
Sender: news@pts.mot.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: sun408
Reply-To: ep502ca@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
References: <2qehml$3jc@search01.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 15:27:02 GMT
Lines: 35
>-I called APS, got what seemed like a teenager on the phone...
Sounds like this guy Keith I talked to there once. He tried to tell me I knew nothing about cars and basically insulted me till I finally hung up.
>See this month's copy of _Wired_ for good article on this. Based on that >article, Autothority is a bunch of f****** competent computer hackers. They >have 3 different upgrades for G60s. I've been considering it, would love to >hear from any who have them. My concern is throttle response in mid-range, >rather than top end.
The Autothority Stage 2 kit will give you all the midrange you have been hoping for. Throttle response is great. The true hackers are the guys at Neuspeed who try to richen up the mixture by screwing with the cold start valve and don't think that there is any advantage to ajusting the timing etc... Autothority went about the modifications the smart way. The reprogrammed the computer to remap the fuel and timing curves. Why hack some kinda enrichment circuit when you can intelligently modify what is already there. If VW was to build the G60 like it was supposed to run they would have done it like Autothority.
Chuck
,,,
(. .)
__________________________________.oOO--(_)--OOo.___________________________
| OOo O |
| __/|_ , Chuck Actor Oo |
| /o _ \/{ ep502ca@pts.mot.com _____ o o |
| \__~__/\{ Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL (_/-\_).. |
| ` ` (407)364-2069 fax (407)364-3925 ===(O). |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Article 31906 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!EU.net!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!pts-nntp!sun408!ep502ca
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: one chip fits all, or no?
Message-ID: <CpJqpo.C5n@pts.mot.com>
Sender: news@pts.mot.com
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Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 17:46:36 GMT
Lines: 20
> Then again, I'm not quite clear as to what exactly the P-Chip does > and it may be that it's not affected by other engine mods.
I'd be real curious to what Neuspeed says. From their catalog, the only thing I can tell it does is increase the rev-limiter. Which in my opinion is a waste. If you look at the dyno curves from Autothority, the horsepower begins to fall off between 5500 and 6000 RPM even with the Stage 3 kit. This can be verified by driving impression. Peak torque on the modified motor is still around 4000 or 4500. So if you shift anywhere near the new redline (7400?) the motor is way down on horsepower and the drop in revs will still be above the peak torque. IMOH this isn't the way to go fast. According to Autothority the drop in power above 5500 is due to the lack in flow of the stock head and intake. The said their tests with different exhausts and air cleaners gave them maybe 5 more HP. They felt the costs didn't oyt weigh the benefits.....Of course that doesn't mean I'm not looking at a P-flow filter and Gillet exhaust.
Chuck
Article 32171 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!world!jhamill
>From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: G60 NewSpeed Upgrades
Message-ID: <CpsqLF.5uC@world.std.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <5MAY199421262253@elroy.uh.edu> <CpFs2w.JC2@world.std.com> <JAH-100594183626@kfp-slac-mac.slac.stanford.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 14:22:27 GMT
Lines: 26
In article <JAH-100594183626@kfp-slac-mac.slac.stanford.edu> JAH@slc.slac.stanford.edu (Josh Hadler) writes:
>> AutoThority kit does not. Both kits make a lot of power. One thing
>> annoying and a feature at the same time is that the Gillet exhaust
>> upgrade that comes with the APS kit is good for 7 hp, but it drones
>> quite badly at some RPM ranges and makes the interior noisy.
>> jh
>I find your comment about the Gillet exhaust unusual. Gillet is amoung the
>quietest of the performance exhaust systems. As well as having a well
>deserved reputation for durabillity. Is the system on your G60 a one or two
>muffler system? I have the Gillet on my '86 GTI, and really like the sound
>levels. The only time I get a "droning" is a great sounding growl at full
>throttle :-)
The G-60 has completely different noise and sound dynamics than a normally aspirated Golf. The Gillet in combination with the extra noise from the supercharger which spins at a higher speed with Stage II does create a drone at about 3000 rpm. You're right in that the sound from the muffler is still quiet with the Gillet, but the Gillet kit replaces the big resonator just behind the rear muffler in the G-60. The resonator VW installed stock actually does its job quite well. The Gillet kit is two piece, it provides a center resonator and center rear muffler to replace the big resonator. G-60's don't "growl" under any circumstances, they just make more supercharger noise as you rev it up.
jh
Article 12255 of rec.autos.vw:
Relay-Version: EDS Unigraphics News Server 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site ug.eds.com
Path: ug!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!pts1!mug87!ep502ca
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Autothority Kits for Corrados
Message-ID: <1993Mar23.205610.10173@pts.mot.com>
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 20:56:10 GMT
Reply-To: ep502ca@pts.mot.com
Sender: usenet@pts.mot.com
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Hello,
I saw a post on the net awhile back summarizing the performance mods
available for the Corrado. I am in the process (waiting for the kit to
arrive by mail) of installing an Autothority Stage III kit on my 90
Corrado. Thought somebody out there may be interested.
The stage three kit consists of a new chip (different than stages I &II), a new smaller blower pulley, a 944 fuel pressure regualtor (higher pressure, boost sensative?) and a new cam. I am purchasing it through a local shop for $760 (list $795). The installation supposebly will take 4 hours (stage 2 takes three hours est.). I decided to have a local german car place do the install as I don't have an impact wrench to remove the blower pulley and the cam change (only 1 hour?) doesn't sound like fun to me.
Anyway, Paul at Autothority (I call him Paul after sitting on the phone with him for a good half hour) claims the following for his kits:
Stage I: Just a chip.
175 HP for $375
Stage II: Different chip, blower pulley and fuel pressure regulator. 201 HP for $595
Stage III: As outlined above.
217 HP for $795
I should have my first reaction in a couple of days. He claims a G60 w/ stage III will run circles around the VR6. I guess with almost 40 more HP it should. According to Autothority Stage III really only helps at 5,000 RPM and up. I figured with the cam change it's a good time for a new timing belt (I have 30K miles on my car). Should be nice for autocrossing.
Autothority's test mule has 13K (according to Paul) very hard miles on it with no breakage. They clain no failures in any of the installations to date. They say there should be minimal loss of reliability. They said I'll be using a lot less throttle in normal driving.
If anyone out there is interested I'll post my driving impressions. BTW I helped install an Autothority stage II kit in a 944 Turbo and the results were fantastic. The kit took less than 1-1/2 hours to install. The car is a blast to drive. With over 300 HP on tap it's great. That's one kit that I can very highly reccomend.
If anyone out there wants to call Autothority, there more than happy to spend time talking to you, there number is: (703) 323-0919.
| | | _ /| Chuck Actor ------- __o | | \`0_o'' Oop, ep502ca@pts.mot.com ------- _`\<,_ | | -( )= Ack! Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL ------- (*)/ (*) | | U (407)364-2751 fax (407)364-2028 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
>From ep502ca@pts.mot.com Wed Apr 14 09:17 PDT 1993
Date: 14 Apr 1993 11:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: VW articles
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
Message-Id: <9304141531.AA03751@pts4.pts.mot.com>
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Jan,
I'm still trying to work out some bugs before I post my responce about the stage 3 conversion I did. But FYI, I was a little pissed at first because of the bad chip they sent me but they did Fed X one next day Sat. delivery to me with no questions asked. More than likely the guys who installed it put it in backwards and nuked it. So not much to say there. Initially the car would hesitate badly between 4,000-5,000 RPM when under full throttle in 3 or 4th gear. I called Autothority about it and was told if it happens at a consistent RPM then they would modify the chip for my at no charge to correct this leaning (that's what I thought it was) condition. Well, I tried the easy thing, two cans of fuel injector cleaner, and it went away. So throw in a can regularly. The car pulls very strong. For my boring driving, flat Florida roads, it could still use some more power. I'm spoiled by my dad's stage 2 944 turbo with maybe 310hp. 217 doesn't cut it in comparison. But to put it in perspective. On curvy roads, best I can does is on ramps and parking lots, it hauls ass! I have to admit I still favor the rush of the turbos over the gradual build of the supercharger. Although the car seems to really take off over 4500. There is also a kick at 3500 RPM. Above 5000 it's making serious horsepower. There is a flat spot in the power between 4000 and 5000 RPM. I talked to Autothority about this and they say it is due to the cam and they can't get rid of this. For anything but straight line WOT acceleration, it's not noticable. The car would be great for Autocrossing with a little suspension work. Right now the car hesitates a little when it is first started and for the first 10 seconds or so when you start it cold. I'm going to talk to Autothority about this. I don't know if the car uses a seperate cold start injector or if the computer richens up the mixture. No big deal. You just blip the throttle when it's cold to clear it up. But it's worth looking in to. I plan on going to the dealer and driving a new VR6 so I can make some better comparisons. I'm also going to drive a stock G60 after work to see the difference. It's easy to forget how it ran before. Also the mileage went down alot but it could be my binary throttle operation. I'll keep you posted.
Chuck
>From ep502ca@pts.mot.com Wed Apr 14 14:40 PDT 1993
Date: 14 Apr 1993 15:47:43 -0400 (EDT)
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: VW articles
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
Message-Id: <9304141947.AA04979@pts4.pts.mot.com>
I just got back from driving a stock G60 and I was a little dissapointed. Either my car isn't running up to par or 60 more HP doesn't make a huge difference. My lowend is definetely better. If you step on the gas when the revs are down in a stock G60 it just sits there. Mine takes off. Overall it's faster but not by quantum leaps. What really stands out is the 5000-6000 RPM flat spot. I might downgrade to stage 2 but I'm undecided as of now. I'll try a VR6 for comparison. Side by side in a drag race I didn't waste him like I thought I could. In a hundered yards or so its hard to tell. It all depends on who wants to launch harder.
I guess I'm still happy. My car is still over $10,000 cheaper than a new VR6. I wish someone else had a modified car around here to compare with.
Chuck
>From usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mdisea!mothost!pts1!mug87!ep502ca Thu Jun 24 08:45:17 PDT 1993
In article Lnz@dove.nist.gov, keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:
>Let's see, at one point i was using Mobil 1... that is until the time >i went to have my valve cover gasket replaced and discovered that >there was only a little over a quart remaining in the pan. Talk about >scared to death. I just knew that my engine was ruined. However, >everything was fine. Needless to say, i went back to Castrol GTX, >yet, sometimes between oil changes (3500 miles) there is no oil >consumption,
Anyone else had this problem? I use Mobil 1 in my Corrado (stage 3) due to the high oil temps. I find the car uses alot of oil now. It appears that alot of it is leaking past the seals in the supercharger...
,,,
(. .)
__________________________________.oOO--(_)--OOo.___________________________
| |
| _ /| Chuck Actor ------- __o |
| \`0_o'' Oop, ep502ca@pts.mot.com ------- _`\<,_ |
| -( )= Ack! Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL ------- (*)/ (*) |
| U (407)364-2069 fax (407)364-2028 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Article 17893 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: speed times?
Message-ID: <1993Jul21.132041.16097@pts.mot.com>
Sender: usenet@pts.mot.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.4.57.154
Reply-To: ep502ca@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
References: <1993Jul20.180608.22120@cc.umontreal.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:20:41 GMT
Lines: 33
I recently had the opportunity to race a friends Mitsubishi Turbo (Eagle Talon clone). The Talons are known to be very quick. I don't remember the 0-60 but the car has 195hp. Anyway my car is a 90 Corrado with a stage 3 kit from Autothority (210+ hp claimed...190-200 maybe). We went from 0 to about 85mph and the cars were almost dead even. We also played on the freeway from 60 to 115 they're pretty close. I'd like to think I had a slight edge but it's hard to tell. When you drive the two cars, the Mitsubishi feels faster.
The Corrado has been a blast to drive with the Autothority kit. I could never go back and drive a stock one. I find myself driving the car much faster now. The drivability is great. The mileage (mainly due to my driving) has dropped from 25-26 average to a little over 19 mpg.
For those who are curious, the top speed is 130 mph. This has been checked a couple of times. I know..."But my stock Corrado does 125...." At least mine did. The peak power of the engine is at 6000 RPM after that it falls off rapidly. Peak fun zone 4,000-6,000 RPM. If you look at the Corrado, 130 mph falls right about 6,000 RPM. Can't go any faster when the power is dropping off. But I can get up there faster than stock, although the most fun is between 60 and 80 mph in 3rd gear.
Chuck
,,,
(. .)
__________________________________.oOO--(_)--OOo.___________________________
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| _ /| Chuck Actor ------- __o |
| \`0_o'' Oop, ep502ca@pts.mot.com ------- _`\<,_ |
| -( )= Ack! Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL ------- (*)/ (*) |
| U (407)364-2069 fax (407)364-2028 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Article 22613 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: Corrado Tuning
Message-ID: <CG77LG.4wy@world.std.com>
Keywords: Corrado, VW, G60
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <121939@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 00:20:02 GMT
Lines: 24
In article <121939@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt9278a@prism.gatech.EDU (Rob Beverly) writes: >Does anyone have any experience with G60 tuning? I am particularly >interested in the kits offered by various manufacturers. AutoThority >offers a Corrado G60 stage 3 kit that supposedly brings the corrado >up to 217bhp for $795. It includes a camshaft and an eprom chip. Are >these figures for real? Would this type of an installation be too >much of a strain on the G-ladder and engine? Any information would
Neuspeed doesn't even claim that much power with their
heavily modified 2.0 G-60 Corrado. Somehow AutoThority's dyno seems
to read way above what everyone else gets. You can probably count on
around 190-200hp with stage III, if you also upgrade the exhaust, which
AutoThority's kit doesn't provide. Neuspeed sells a Gillet middle pipe
and muffler for $300, but this exhaust makes the car drone at highway
speeds quite badly. The real soulution? Sell the car and buy a SLC!
When I still had my G-60 I had every trick that could be bolted
to it, and was making probably 200-205hp. I didn't think the engine
was strained at all, but the car itself couldn't really handle that
much power well. You really need traction control with that much power
or the car becomes unstable.
jh
Article 24534 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: [W] Starter problems in '90 Corrado
Message-ID: <CICpyn.B1D@pts.mot.com>
Sender: news@pts.mot.com
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:51:59 GMT
Lines: 38
I have the Autothority Stage 3 kit in my 90. I'd reccomend it. The only negative I have is the mileage. But then again, the way I drive it's not that bad. Average around 20-21. Made one trip of 185 miles in just under 2 hours an got 17 mpg. Sorry I used to have a sprint turbo (40+ mpg). Double check the timing after install to make sure it's right on and keep good clean plugs in the car. As far as wheel spin goes, I have no problems. I use 205 Michellin XGTs on 15x7 rims. The car can spin them but you really have to get into it. Personally I find the VW CV joints and tranny a little to fragile for smokin' the tires. You will notice the car losses HP above 5500 RPM. This is due to the cam and the breathing of the stock head. So don't expect your top speed to go up. You'll just get there quicker. Keep me informed how it works for you. I'm very interested. Some people claim tire smoking performance but I've been underwhelmed in some respects. I'm going to try a lower temp thermostat and fan temp gauge to see if I can cool the motor down. It doesn't run much hotter than stock, but even stock the oil temp is too high for my liking. I agree with Jan, the gearing does suck.
FYI: for those interested, a late model Golf or Jetta cooling fan will work in the Corrado. The Corrado fan is $250 and a used Golf fan is $65-$75. The blades are different (wont interchange) but the fan is a straight bolt in and seems to work as good or better than the stock fan.
Chuck
,,,
(. .)
__________________________________.oOO--(_)--OOo.___________________________
| OOo O |
| __/|_ , Chuck Actor Oo |
| /o _ \/{ ep502ca@pts.mot.com _____ o o |
| \__~__/\{ Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL (_/-\_).. |
| ` ` (407)364-2069 fax (407)364-3925 ===(O). |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Article 24572 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Path: lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sgiblab!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!world!jhamill
>From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] Starter problems in '90 Corrado
Message-ID: <CIF1M3.K32@world.std.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2f4scpINNrqk@lynx.unm.edu> <CICpyn.B1D@pts.mot.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 02:58:50 GMT
Lines: 16
In article <CICpyn.B1D@pts.mot.com> ep502ca@pts.mot.com writes: >I have the Autothority Stage 3 kit in my 90. I'd reccomend it. The only >negative I have is the mileage. But then again, the way I drive it's not >that bad. Average around 20-21. Made one trip of 185 miles in just under >2 hours an got 17 mpg. Sorry I used to have a sprint turbo (40+ mpg). >Double check the timing after install to make sure it's right on and >keep good clean plugs in the car. As far as wheel spin goes, I have no >problems. I use 205 Michellin XGTs on 15x7 rims. The car can spin them
Interesting. I still used to get 27-29 mpg with my 90 Corrado with Stage III and a Gillet exhaust, KN airfilter. My city mileage did drop 3-4 mpg though. I'm still convinced AutoThority tries to accomplish a little too much with the chip alone. They dial in a lot of fuel and timing advance, much more than the P-chip which you use with the APS stage II.
Article 34421 of rec.autos.vw:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill)
Subject: Re: [W] G60 + AT Stage II + ?AutoTech CAM? ~= Stage III?
Message-ID: <CrtyJq.9q3@world.std.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <2u7onr$2rj@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 03:19:01 GMT
Lines: 23
In article <2u7onr$2rj@lynx.unm.edu> jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>I was wondering whether any of you have tried to use
>AutoTech's CAM on a Corrado G60 with a Stage 2 Autothority
>kit.
>This is similar to the Stage 3 kit, but at a lower price,
>the main difference being the chip.
>
>If you did, how's low end, high end, idle, power, fuel
>consumption, noise, reliability.
>
I installed the Stage II kit back when they had first developed
it and then installed the 260 deg supercharger cam from APS. I called
AutoThority about a chip to compensate for the cam and they sent me
what later became the chip for the Stage III kit. I noticed no difference
at all between the stage II and III chips. The cam however, makes a HUGE
difference. Much more midrange and top end, no loss (or minimal at best)
of low end. Fuel consumption is a function of your right foot in any
turbo or supercharged car. If you go easy you can still get 27-29 mpg
highway. The 260 deg cam is very mild and doesn't affect idle at all.
In fact, you can't even tell the cam has been changed until you get the
boost up and then all hell breaks loose. The stage II kit should not
be installed without the 260 deg cam, it makes that much difference.
>From ep502ca@pts.mot.com Wed Jun 22 07:31 PDT 1994
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 10:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: [W] G60 + AT Stage II + ?AutoTech CAM? ~=
To: jan@camhpp12
Message-Id: <9406221428.AA21817@mserv1.pts.mot.com>
X-Envelope-To: jan@fshpp1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Content-Length: 1456
Status: RO
When i was having problems with my car originally, I ran a stage 2 chip with my stage 3 cam. from what I can tell the stage 2 chip is just a little leaner. I'm sure there are alot of subtle differences but that is the only thing I noticed. Right now my car is running like shit! It won't pull full throttle. The knock sensor cuts in and kills the motor the minute you punch it under load. I tried new plugs (usually fixes the problem) but it didn't help. It pulls real strong part throttle so I'm guessing the timing got advanced some how. I need to check it this weekend. Of course after the car got totally vandalized by some gang this weekend, I'm ready to dump it. Did you know that spray in foam insulation can not be dissolved by any common solvents? And it does a great job of sticking doors, spoilers and hatches shut. Plugs exhauts pretty well also. It even sticks to rubber. And always keep your car heavily waxed so spray paint comes offf easier.
Wow my car needed wax!
,,,
(. .)
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>From ep502ca@pts.mot.com Thu Jun 23 11:43 PDT 1994
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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:39:52 -0400 (EDT)
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: [W] G60 + AT Stage II + ?AutoTech CAM? ~=
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
Message-Id: <9406231839.AA08993@mserv1.pts.mot.com>
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
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Status: RO
> Leaner? That's not that great for VW engines, they seem to like to > run a tad rich.
All the ones I have seen tend to run lean.
> Do you notice a big difference between the regular cam and the > stage 3 cam? I am sure there is more power, but at what point do > you really feel the difference? How does it affect the low end?
I went straight from stage zero to stage 3. I drove a friends stage 2 for a couple of miles but that's it. I can't remeber much except thinking that going from stage 2 to 3 was a waste of time for normal driving. There isn't much difference.
> Perhaps your knock sensor died? Torqued wrongly?
I haven't touched it. I'm going to try to retard the timing. The sensor is definetly working...working too good.
> Bummer. I just saw an add for an SLC on the net. I was almost tempted. > The SLCs are 10 times better than the G60s. > Of course, if you are like me, I have my eye out on some 2nd hand 911s. > One guy here at work bought an '82 targa in mint condition for about 12k$. > Hope you have vandalism coverage.
I still think the best deal for the money is an 85-86 944 turbo with a stage 2 kit in it. 300 hp. It's like comparing the G60 to the SLC. It makes the VW look like crap. I got scared of 911 when I priced a set of cylinders and pistons (about $2k). I'm sick of cars right now. If i want to go fast I hop on my motorcycle. For less than 10K you can get a bike that will blow away any car on the road. My 55hp Ducati will rip the Crappado apart. Save the car for the grocerey store and when it rains.
Article: 44063 of rec.autos.vw
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Path: usc!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!pts-nntp!sun408!cactor
>From: cactor@pts.mot.com (Charles Actor)
Subject: Re: --Corrado Question --
Message-ID: <Czq710.6p@pts.mot.com>
Sender: news@pts.mot.com
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Reply-To: cactor@pts.mot.com
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 15:00:36 GMT
Lines: 50
I
n article 1ahj@hearst.cac.psu.edu, dxp108@hearst.cac.psu.edu (Dave Petroski) writes:
>It's time to tune up my G60. Where can I get the K&N air filter which
>replaces the air cleaner box. The one which is round and looks like
>it's from a race car or something. Also what is the best type of spark
>plugs to use in a G60? My corrado has 60,000 miles and has seems to
>have lost what it used to have in performance. Whats the best way to
>optimize a cars performance without cams and perf chips?
>
Dave,
Nuespeed makes the aircleaner you are talking about. Personally I'd go with the stock K&N replacment and keep the original airbox. The difference in horsepower with the P-flow (cone shaped filter) is minimal and you will get more intake noise and the filter will require cleaning often. You can temporarily pull the airbox out of your car and run it to see if the airbox is causing any restrictions and losses of power. You may notice a slight increase in power but it could just be the increased noise level that makes it "feel" quicker.
Why don't you want to try a chip or something? VW tuned the motor so it will run forever on any kinda crap gas you can put in it. Face it, if you had to put a warranty on it you would detune the hell out of it. The motor does have potential though. I've run a Autothority Stage 3 kit for 30k miles and a buddy of mine has about six months or more on the Stage 2 kit we installed. The difference in performance between stock and modified (mildly) is pretty big. I just stripped the AutoThority stuff off my car to trade it in. I just drove the car for the first time this morning in stock trim I left the cam in, but it's a very mild one) and the car is slow. No... it's a dog. I am selling the engine kit. If you want to make the car run like it is supposed to, you're going to have to go the chip/pulley route. If not, there is nothing you can do with aircleaners, exhausts etc. that wiull give you any real increase in power.
Chuck
,,,
(. .)
__________________________________.oOO--(_)--OOo.___________________________
| OOo O |
| __/|_ , Chuck Actor Oo |
| /o _ \/{ cactor@pts.mot.com _____ o o |
| \__~__/\{ Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL (_/-\_).. |
| ` ` (407)364-2069 fax (407)364-3925 ===(O). |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Trevor,
I have a Corrado G60, and over here in the U.K there is a company doing
similar things to what you described. I looked into this and was told that the
kit consisted of a PROM change to the engine management system, and a
replacement (smaller) drive pulley on the supercharger shaft. I was told that
this would result in an increase of power from 160BHP to 190BHP, and an
increase of torque from 160 lb/foot to 250 lb/foot!!! As my car is a company
car I decided not to go ahead with this, but I was assured that there would be
no long term damage to the super-charger if I did make the change.
Hope this helps,
/\ Alan McCowan
\\ \ (Sun - UK - FSE)
\ \\ /
/ \/ / / 38 Melville Street
/ / \//\ Edinburgh
\//\ / / Scotland
/ / /\ / EH3 7HA
/ \\ \ Email :alan.mccowan@sunscot
\ \\
\/
>From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Tue Jan 10 10:23:38 PST 1995
Article: 47487 of rec.autos.vw
Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>From: allen66@aol.com (ALLEN66)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Need speed!
Date: 9 Jan 1995 21:04:40 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: allen66@aol.com (ALLEN66)
I have a 90 Corrado and have added a Leistritz exhaust and a P-chip from Nuespeed. The exhaust was a tremendous difference and as for the chip, well, it wasn't worth the $250 big ones, go with a stage two or three but then there is that cost thing. The P-flow is supposed to be very nice also but you can 'make' one from a K&N filter and some PCV pipe for @ 60-70 bucks.
Article: 47494 of rec.autos.vw
Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>From: allen66@aol.com (ALLEN66)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Who Makes the Best Chip
Date: 9 Jan 1995 21:25:32 -0500
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Reply-To: allen66@aol.com (ALLEN66)
I have a 90 Corrado and put a Nuespeed P-chip in and for the cost I am pretty disappointed, I would go with a stage 2 or 3 from somewhere else. Allen66
Article: 47580 of rec.autos.vw
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>From: davidtam@interlog.com (David K. Tam)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Need speed!
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:40:36 LOCAL
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In article <3eujmi$mpl@lipari.usc.edu> jan@lipari.usc.edu (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>Path: interlog.com!news1.fonorola.net!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!usc!not-for-mail
>From: jan@lipari.usc.edu (Jan Vandenbrande)
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
>Subject: Re: Need speed!
>Date: 10 Jan 1995 10:29:38 -0800
>Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
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>In article <3espvo$1u3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> allen66@aol.com (ALLEN66) writes: >>I have a 90 Corrado and have added a Leistritz exhaust and a P-chip from >>Nuespeed. The exhaust was a tremendous difference and as for the chip, >>well, it wasn't worth the $250 big ones, go with a stage two or three but >>then there is that cost thing. The P-flow is supposed to be very nice also >>but you can 'make' one from a K&N filter and some PCV pipe for @ 60-70 >>bucks.
>How's the sound from the Leistritz? Is that the package where the >suitcase muffler is eliminated?
>Watch out for the PFlow...it's way too noisy for THAT CAR (it's cool >on the VR6s) just go with the K&N replacement filter.
>The AutoThority Stage I (and all the others) made quite a difference >in my opinion. (I have to watch out nowadays, some of the tuners know >me and call me when I voice some of my opinions).
>Jan
>--
>-----------------
>Jan jan@lipari.usc.edu
I too have a 90 G0 Corrado with Leistritz exhaust, P-Chip and P-Flow. What I found was a bit different. The Leistritz didn't really make that much of a difference except hassle in getting installing so the pipe won't hit my rear axle. The Leistritz sound pretty good and it does eliminates the suit case muffler. The only problem is it occassionally have a loud buzy sound may be it is a defect. As for the P-Chip, it is great I would not go back to the stock chip. Also the P-Flow is louder but the response in the high end is fast. I am still contemplating in going to Stage II and with APS or APE. Is stage II too much power for the G60 Corrado? Any comments.
Regards.
David
Article: 47626 of rec.autos.vw
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>From: martynk@io.org (Martyn Kerluk)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Make your own replacement chip
Date: 10 Jan 1995 22:56:01 GMT
Organization: Internex Online, Toronto, Ontario, Canada (416 363 3783)
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>I'm not sure what timing maps have to do with anything. Since most
>functions are stored as lookup table in memory all you really need
>to do is locate the tables and play with the numbers (in small deltas)
>until you get what you want. An example is A/F ratio tables and
>multipliers. Most Superchips merely run the engine richer than
>stoich or at least richer than the original calibration allowed.
>Another thing to play with is the top speed fuel cut-out calibration.
>This is usually just a number in memory that can be altered to suit
>the driver's needs.
>
>cheers,
>Bryan (millerb@ACM.org)
MK> Its that kind of "run the engine richer..." mod that causes Superchips to ping and knock like crazy. Really. I have seen/heard Superchips/Neuspeed and AMS, and went with AMS because they allow me exactly what I need, ie, 7200rpm redline, so my 268 cam's can be used effectively, increase throttle response WITHOUT knock or ping, no mean feat specially with high lift/duration cam's, and retain VAG 1551 compatibility. The difference is in the R&D.
--
Martyn Kerluk 2.0 litre GTI 16v
<><><><><><><>
...."I come to free the words" ....
..........Brion Gysin..............
Article: 49869 of rec.autos.vw
>From: Cincinnati Autohaffen <76322.1015@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: CORRADO G60 P CHIP?? YAY OR NAY
Date: 2 Feb 1995 00:11:36 GMT
Organization: Porsche/VW Specialists
Lines: 7
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References: <3ghvfe$f67@ns1.unicomp.net>
Suggest you spend a bit more for a kit ie. Autotech Stage 2, or Neu approach. More boost , ,more poop. Autotech,s Stage 3 is a BIG improve Use the Liestritz free-flow and a K@N air filter also. Note: DO NOT a more boost without more fuel enrichment !!!
--
SAS
Article: 50466 of rec.autos.vw
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>From: jhamill@tiac.net (John Hamill)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [W] Corrado Mods: Finally decided....
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 00:01:39
Organization: JAH Systems
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In article <3h5k3j$gg9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> cybrworx@aol.com (Cybrworx) writes: >1) Has anyone gone with the Chip+Cam+Exhausts mod for a G60 without doing >the charger pulley? I'm just not brave enough to drive the charger >harder. At least until it only cost $1K to replace them (instead of $2K). > What were your impressions?
Yes, this is exactly how I have my wife's 91 G-60 setup right now. It works great, better mpg with more power if needed. The engine very willingly revs to redline now. I don't want to go with the pulley since the car already has 50k. The loss of torque with the 260 cam and no smaller pulley is not that noticeable.
>2) The Momo Arrow wheels have caught my eye. I saw a set of 17 inchers on>a Golf (Feb European Car) and I liked the look. Any onopinions?
I think 16" is more practical, and looks as good. You are very limited in tire selection also when you go to 17".
Article 51828 of rec.autos.vw:
>From: bihifi123@aol.com (BiHiFi123)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Corrado exaust upgrade?
Date: 23 Feb 1995 01:43:04 -0500
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I have a 90 Corrado.I purchased the Neuwspeed stage 2 kit.It came with a smaller s- pully & a center Gillet muffler.The problem is;the new muffler hits rear axel on hard acceleration.It rattles like crazy.It is driving me nuts.My service shop has tried 5 to 7 times over the last 3 years and cant get it to quit rattling. If anyone is in the rear seat it will always rub on axil.Is it because the factory springs are possibly sagging or is this just a poor fit? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME WITH THIS PROBLEM .It's so bad I've thought of selling the car.(It makes it sound like a bug not a sports car.)It is almost time for a new FREE FLOWING EXAUST SYSTEM.PLEASE HELP ME. What will fix it? Or ,what system(brand) will work with a proper fit?
Please give any help. Troy (bihifi123@aol) I LOVE MY CORRADO,I WAN'T TO KEEP IT.
Article 52416 of rec.autos.vw:
>From: drbob27@aol.com (Drbob27)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: G60 survey - results
Date: 1 Mar 1995 18:01:38 -0500
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First, the data, with only a simple statistical analysis.
24 total responses, 2 lost a charger, 4 had small pulleys, nobody with a
small
pulley lost a charger. For the 18 with original chargers and pulleys, the
average
mileage was 55,000 (range 26,000-90,000). At charger loss mileages were
26,000 and 45,000. Small pulley cars have an average mileage of 57,000
(25,000-82,000), with the small pulley used for an average mileage of
25,000
(16,000-44,000). Both chargers were replaced under warranty, only one
person
gave an estimate of $2600, parts and labor.
Now, my IMHO analysis. Charger loss is a small but significant
possibility.
Mileage is probably not the only important factor (If your chargers number
is
up...). No data on whether the charger has any lifespan, such as 100,000
miles,
as turbos seem to. Small pulleys do not radically (defined as an order of
magnitude) increase the probability of charger loss, but the data is too
sparse to
reveal even a major (factor of 4) impact on charger reliability.
Will post again if I get data that alters this picture much.
Bob
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Mar 17 16:52 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 19:28:55 -0500 (EST)
>From: mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu (Michal Szlabowicz - Med Student)
Subject: Q-Flow in my car (finally)
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Hey all (espacially Todd and Andy),
Well the Q-Flow finally made it here today without being squished by UPS. It took less than 10 minutes to put it in my 1990 G60...(maybe I was rushing and couldn't wait to start the car.) And...well when I cranked the car, it was anticlimactic; no change from stock...thought to myself "$100 for this"... So I decided to go for a test drive (let the car warm up to 180deg oil, as I cleaned up my mess and old huge airbox). Then it came...I thought there was someone next to me, but at about 3.5k you hear this sound that begs for more gas, and you keep on giving it, until, well 6k comes around and you have to shift, and then comes a surprise (it sounds like the car sighs) and you get to go through this fun sound experience again.
On a more critical level though, the Q-flow is not audible (or very minor) if the windows and the sunroof are rolled up, so should be good for long trips on the Hwy, but then again I have the Leistritz "sport sound" exhaust, which by no means is QUIET. The filter itself is a K&N, looks like an O (capital), ie it is not a circle/ round cyllinder, but an O cyllinder (hope you understnd) and comes with a connector and a bracket u-shaped that screws into where the vaccuum pump is (under the now gone airbox), so far no rubbing, although the filter is not in really tight, but I guess it's not supposed to. As for throttle response, maybe (hopefully) there is a slight improivement, but what I noticed is that when the supercharger kicks in at about 3k, the car revs up a lot quicker in 1st gear than it used to, and is smoother over 5k. Performance changes...I can't really tell...What I can say though, is that I went for a 15 minute drive, and was gone for 75 mins, with a 23.1 ave mpg, and I kept the car over 3k rpm most of the time...LOTS of fun....
Is it worth $100, I don't know, but I didn't want to spend $30 on a stock one. And the sound is kind of fun...drove like a bat out of hell down Ocean Drive, on Miami Beach, and people were turning their heads...I think I'm glad I got it. Now if only my wrist pin(s) were not making noise!!!!!
Any q's just ask, hope this helps...
Mike
mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu
G60...it's NOT a turbo, it's a supercharger...
p.s. KEN G. if you are here, give me your e-mail address in a message...lot cheaper than calling actually it's free :)
>From csschan@cssmtpgw.comp.polyu.edu.hk Fri Mar 24 18:10 PST 1995
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>From: csschan <csschan@cssmtpgw.comp.polyu.edu.hk>
Subject: Martti Mantyla
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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Dear Jan,
I am trying to get in touch with Martti Mantyla to ask him some questions. Would you happen to know his address? especially e-mail or fax number? Thanks.
-- Stephen
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Mar 24 16:33 PST 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:04:58 -0500 (EST)
>From: Alex Lewin <lewin@vgi.com>
Subject: Re: @#$!#$ Seatbelts, and other things.
In-Reply-To: <01HOID9UR4QQ005PQK@UG.EDS.COM>
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Having looked at
gopher://gopher.lap.umd.edu/00ftp%3aPublic%3avw_archives%3afaq.vw.tec
I've concluded that we want to convert all this to html, and where it says, for instance:
Also suspect your shock if you hear an excessive amount of swishing.<NOISE>
we want to stick an audio file with the noise in it!!
Alex
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Mar 24 18:37 PST 1995
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>From: John Leipsic <johnny5@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: scary thought...
In-Reply-To: <9503250031.AA03400@newssun.med.miami.edu>
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On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Michal Szlabowicz - Med Student wrote:
> I was shocked today when I was cleaning the enigine compartment, and since I
> have no more Airbox left after I got the Q-flow, I found "Made in Mexico"
> was. Is this really true? and does anone have Corrado built with at least one
> Mexican part in it? I bought the Corrado because I thought it was built by
>
> Would be interested to find how many other people have the same part.
>
Jan was the first to mention this "Hecho en Mexico" stamp beneath
the airbox. I removed my factory airbox to install a Neuspeed p-flo,
and sure enough, stamped right onto the body panel was "Hecho en Mexico."
We can rest assured that the assembly took place in Germany. Mine has "Made in W. Germany" on the door post plaque. I wonder if the stamp became "Made in Germany" after the fall of the wall in '90. My cars were both made 11/89, as the wall was crumbling.
Speaking of body panels, I've checked out the new Golf and Jetta ///s, and I'm afraid the body panels are just not as strong or thick as the Corrado. At least they are not as bad as my old Hyundai, you could crease a panel by looking at it the wrong way.
Incidentally, there is a difference with the p-flo. I find a quicker throttle response at high rpms on my G60, like 3500 to 5000 rpms. The sound is not really what I would describe as "sport growl" as advertised. It is more of an exaggerated supercharger "whooooosh, waaaawaaaaahaaaaaha." But it looks more trick in the engine bay.
Corrado: it's not just a Volkswagen, it's better than a Porsche.
John L
Article 54913 of rec.autos.vw:
>From: css2416@gl72.glade.yorku.ca (LUK KWOK )
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [W] 90 G60 mod Questions
Date: 27 Mar 1995 17:59:36 GMT
Organization: York University, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3l6ue8$8gi@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: gl72.glade.yorku.ca
In article <3kep1t$ds2$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> David Sumner
<73513.743@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> I m ready to start purchasing my 90 G60 Corrado upgrades. I was
> wondering if anybody cared to comment on the following items.
>
> 1. Eibach or Hor Technology springs?
> 2. Sway bar benefits?
> 3. Mintex brake pads, does the FF temp designation mean anything?
> Is there a major difference from plain old VW stock?
> 4. Are the aftermarker exhausts any wider than stock VW?
> Louder/Quieter?
> 5. Neuspeed vs. Autotech Camshaft? Why such a difference in
> price?
> 6. Is the Quaife Differential (Autotech catalog pg. 40) the
> answer to traction control?
> 7. Headlight mods? Does higher power require new relays?
> 8. Has anybody seen the 'Slower traffic move right' windshield
> sticker that was featured on the Porsche in European car in
> February (I think).
I drive a corrado VR6, and I have Neuspeed race springs, SPAX adjustable shocks, Neuspeed swaybars(front and back), Neuspeed tower bar, Remus exhaust.In terms of suspension, I really like the way it set up, because I like it really stiff, since I often go to the race track for lapping. I belive your G60 will handle as good as my VR6 if you put the same stuff in your car. If you want to modify your engine, I will suggest you to purchase the Neuspeed power kit, including their cam and their P-chip. The stock exhaust from VW is a good one already no need to change. The reason I change mine is because I like the Remus exhaust look.
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Apr 12 17:01 PDT 1995
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 11:04:27 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jan Vandenbrande <jan@UG.EDS.COM>
Subject: Re: Advancing the timing?
In-Reply-To: <01HP6FKQCQ0I00QUJI@utrcgw.utc.com>; from "P. KUMMER" at Apr 10,
95 3:28 pm
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I am still wading through all my mail...geez I get WAY too much mail (~150 msg a day).
> >I have found that you can manually advance the timing for some
> >more power. Even with the knock sensor max'ed out you are still below
> >knock range of premium gas.
> >Just a guess.
>
> How many degrees are you advancing the timing?
I think a tooth or two on the flywheel. Not sure how many degrees that corresponds to.
> Is this on your stage III G60?
Yes.
> What kind of power gains are we talking here? (Best guess)
I was having a decrease of performance after I installed the Stage III kit at the low end. This helped compensate for it. I may have other problems that I have not figured out yet.
In my opinion, the "factory" settings are ok for unmodified new cars. For older modified cars, the ignition requirements change and probably the only good way to tune a car like that is through a dyno tune. I just did it by ear.
> Is it worth the cost of premium? (I guess I'll have to decide this one!)
Stage III already requires premium. The low end is a bit weak, still, but once it starts spinning, that G60 is like a rocket, especially on the freeway. Just tap it and you see all the cars that were next to you disappear in your rear view mirror.
> The only time I was able to get my G60 to knock was right after I changed the > timing belt. I installed the new one, and took the car for a spin (before > checking the timing). When I nailed it, the car exibited a slight knock (w/ > 87 octane). OK, so I checked & reset the timing, and now no more knock. I > believe I have it set at 6 deg advance (per Bentley). I suppose theoretically, > I could advance the timing & use premium for a little bit more power. But I > don't imagine it's much. Comments? Is it worth wrestling with that #$&*ing > bolt to loosen the distributor?
I'd go with the chips first. Yeah that bolt was a MAJOR pain to get at, took me an hour.
--
Article 4472 of rec.autos.vw:
Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V1.5; site bbs.ug.eds.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: TURBO IN G60
Message-ID: <21761@comton.airs.com>
>From: andrew@airs.com (Andrew Evans)
Date: 14 Apr 95 02:35:58 GMT
References: <3m7dqu$1ge4@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
<3mjojn$7sg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: Infinity Development, Waltham, MA
Lines: 14
jamessly@aol.com (JamesSly) writes:
>Sounds like an interesting proposal. You could reroute the plumbing from >the turbo to the intake of the intercooler and remove the bypass valve >(needed only with a supercharger).
Actually, it would be a good idea to leave the bypass valve in the
circuit - my SAAB turbo has one to prevent the compressor from
stalling when the throttle is closed under boost, so when you get back
on it, you don't have to wait as long for the turbo to spool up.
These are a popular aftermarket item for other turbo cars that don't
have them, since it increases driveability.
--
Andrew Evans (andrew@airs.com) - Boston, MA USA
Article 5081 of rec.autos.vw:
Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V1.5; site bbs.ug.eds.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Neuspeed VS "the others"
Message-ID: <jhamill.234.000B1492@tiac.net>
>From: jhamill@tiac.net (John Hamill)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:04:44
References: <3mup8t$8hv@diplomatic.passport.ca>
<jhamill.225.00173CF6@tiac.net> <3n9ldn$2o0@kelowna.awinc.com>
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In article <3n9ldn$2o0@kelowna.awinc.com> dmarshal@awinc.com (David) writes:
>In article <jhamill.225.00173CF6@tiac.net>, jhamill@tiac.net says...
>>
>>In article <3mup8t$8hv@diplomatic.passport.ca> senna@passport.ca (Jeff Heacock)
>>writes:
>I can't say anything about the cams but I bought an Imitation "P-Flo" from
>S.D.S. (K&N
>filter kit) for my Digifant 91 Jetta. I was not impressed. The neuspeed has a
>very nice bracket to hold the filer steady with. The S.D.S. kit had a
>flimsy piece ofmetal to try to hold it steady. I turned it into a project
>for the metal working shop at the>local
>high school... they did a much better job! If I had the time (and money) back
>again I'd buy the Neuspeed!
Problem is, Neuspeed doesn't make a P-flow for Digifant cars because its a waste of time and money. A P-flow will do nothing for this engine except make it real noisy. I would agree the extra cost of a lot of their products are worth it in that they are generally well designed, but careful shopping will sometimes find alternatives as better prices. You can also find places like PlainWrap that offer all the Neuspeed stuff at generally 10% less. I have been using the cams from AutoTech for years and never had a problem. Why spend $179 for an APS G-60 cam when you can get it for $100 from AutoTech? (with a lifetime warranty).
Article 5107 of rec.autos.vw:
Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V1.5; site bbs.ug.eds.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [W] 90 G60 mod Questions
Message-ID: <3mvi2a$1qrd@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
>From: whquek@acs.ucalgary.ca (Wei Hsiung Quek)
Date: 17 Apr 1995 23:18:02 -0600
References: <3mup8t$8hv@diplomatic.passport.ca>
Organization: The University of Calgary
NNTP-Posting-Host: acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca
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neuspeed? no way man! go autothority stage II, slap on stainless steel headers and free flowing cat back, drop in a shrick 260 and ka pow!!!! instant mustang killer!!!
trust me, i was and still is there.
wei quek
p.s. the neuspeed pflo did nothing other than waste my
$140. anyone know why? too close to supercharger and sucking
up the hot air????
wei quek
90 g60
This is in memory of my 1990 Corrado G60. It had all the goodies a G60
owner could want.
The engine had Nuespeeds HP kit, chip, 260 camshaft, K&N filter, and my
own custom Intercoler. It came out of a, ahem, Renault fuego. It was
slightly larger than stock, but it had a highspeed fan that came on
above 5 pounds of boost. It worked awsome, and the fan was great on the
hot summer days.
The chassis had all the usual stuff. Sofsport springs, 22/25 swaybars,
Boge shocks, front and rear stress bars (all Nuespeed), VW Motorsport
A-arm bushings, and VR6 strutbearings. 15 inch TSW Evo wheels with
205/50 BFG Comp TA IIIs kept it glued to the road.
European Headlights (get them if you can, they are F'n awsome) rounded
out the mods.
In the works was a 16V conversion (I still have the motor if anyone
wants it. check my add in classified.) .
Unfortunatly last October a fuel line blew. By the time the fire
department got there my Alpine White G60 was char black. Most of the
accessories were detstroyed.
Luckily I had receipts so Mr. Insurance Man had no choice but to cough
up most of what I had into the car.
Many a Mustang GT and Camaro Z must of pondered why all they saw was my
tailpipe. Not to mention the early 80's 911s who wondered why that VW
symbol that so sudenly apeared in their rearview could not be shaken
off.
My car was great. I miss it.
All is not lost though. My new project is a 93 VR6 Corrado. with more
potential than the G60 had, this project will be
PRIDE IN MY RIDE # 37 Date: 04-03-95, 11:45 Left by: BRIAN JOWETT Replied # 36 Sent to: VANDENBRANDE Status: Public Topic: funeral Rcvd: No
You can mount it in the stock location, but its a bitch to make the
mounts to hold it in place. I finally moved my battery to the trunk to
make room under the hood. Now there are two ways to get air to it. Top
( yuky taky hood scoop
but is easy ) or bottom ( nobody will know but you ). The second way is
the way I finally decided on. You have to cut a large hole where the
battery use to be which isn't much harder than cutting one for a yuky
taky hood scoop. Oh yeah, you have to go to the salvage yard first! Find
a Reanalt Fuego turbo if you can. You will find the intercooler on the
pasenger side. On the same side mounted to the front of the strut tower
are three pressure switches with various hoses and wires coming out of
them. I don't remember exactly which one you need. So take all three!
One is set to trigger at five pounds. The other two are over boost
switches for the turbo, and are set at somthing like 20 PSI and
obviously won't work scince you only have 14.5. You will figure out
which one by wether or not your fan works. The swithes have a small
screw in the top which I never messed with but may allow you to adjust
the pressure at which the switch operates. Anyways, you have to make
your own ducting to feed cold air to the intercooler. Be creative. You
can use most of the factory intake to plumb the intercooler. Although I
used a the aluminum pipe from a Saab turbo to attach the G-charger to
the intercooler. Ok you also have to plumb in the pressure switch.
Actually, on the Renault the aluminum pipe that crosses over the valve
cover has the a nipple for the hose that leads to the presure switch.
you need the nipple and you can folow the hose to the correct switch.
Well I've draged on long enough. you should be able to figure how to
wire and plumb everthing by looking at the renualt. Use your imagination
these projects should be fun, Good luck!
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu May 4 13:16 PDT 1995
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Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 13:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jan Vandenbrande <jan@UG.EDS.COM>
Subject: Re: Stage 1 chip
In-Reply-To: <199505041337.IAA27296@mixcom.mixcom.com>; from
"Steven M. Kosloske" at May 04, 95 8:37 am
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> The time has come to get a performance chip for my G60. I know Jan rates the > APE chip the highest, and I agree by what I've read, I don't want to spend > $375 for the chip. Neuspeed and several others make a stage 1 chip for $250, > and I don't think the APE chip is that much better to be worth 50% more. > I'd like to hear opinions on what is the next best chip. Thanks.
Actually, John Hamill tried both kits and liked the APE one the best for a variety of reasons (less noisy, more power, but less driveable). However, in the mean time APS has done some more twiddling and may have a chip with better throttle responce. Aaron figured out a way to control the Airbypass valve better or something.
But in any case, the thing to keep in mind is where you think you may end up.
Also don't buy from APE but from AT. I bought all my upgrades during their yearly sales (June 24 this year) and after the initial St1 only paid something like 100$ for the Stage II, 80$ for the cam, and 100 for the chip upgrade (not on sale). Can't remember how much I paid for St1, but it was a tad more than the rest.
Don't forget AMS, he's supposedly also coming out with a kit. Try to sweet talk Marc into giving you a good price and that you'll review it on the Internet ;->
A PS to all: If you have the power/torque numbers for the APS PChip, I'll be more than glad to add them to my table. Also feel free to verify the numbers I have.
--
>From briang@netmanage.com Wed Jun 14 13:45 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
>From: briang@netmanage.com
Subject: G-60
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
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Status: RO
I sent this to someone and decided to pass it along to you as well.
BTW a neat tip. Take out the plastic splash gaurd from the drivers side front wheel well. Then measure where the intercooler sits in front of it. Use this to mark the plastic gaurd. Then using a ruler mark a grid 4"h x 6"w or larger on the
plastic. Lines should be 3/4" apart. THen using a 3/8"bit, drill holes on the intersections. Clean holes. Replace splash guard. Instant extra cooling and 3-4hp
on hard highway driving!
The holes will look like this:
| <==fender edge
| o o o o o o o
| o o o o o o o
| o o o o o o o
| o o o o o o o
|
This message was sent by Chameleon
>From briang@netmanage.com Wed Jun 14 16:16 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 15:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
>From: briang@netmanage.com
Subject: RE: G-60 (fwd)
To: Jan Vandenbrande <jan@UG.EDS.COM>
Message-Id: <Chameleon.950614161254.briang@briang.netmanage.com>
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On Wed, 14 Jun 1995 15:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Jan Vandenbrande wrote:
>Congrats, you made it to the G60_Power_Upgrades hall of fame ;->
>
>Does the Intercooler get any dirtier with these holes.
Nope. Actually I haven't had to clean it out as much. Used to be that mud would
collect in the channels. Now it seems the extra air flow pushs it through. I'm
going to take pictures of the process and scan them sometime soon.
>
>PS: Another trick I read about (on a BiTurbo) is to use water
>nossles to cool the intercooler on hard acceleration.
Haven't tried it but I saw the article in EC.
I'll send you more stuff as I tinker with my car.
This message was sent by Chameleon
>From ep502ca@pts.mot.com Mon Jul 12 13:00 PDT 1993
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 15:55:48 -0500 (EST)
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Re: [W] Wetting Agent (Redline)
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM
Message-Id: <9307122055.AA01053@pts4.pts.mot.com>
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Yes the car is more fun to drive. I still haven't tried the SLC yet... Maybe I'm afraid I'll like it more. And I must admit that the car is rarely driven with less than half throttle now and I usually cruise 80+ on the highway. The stage three cam has only a little more overlap than stock so it shouldn't greatly impact the mileage. If you drive the car easy (55-60) then it will get almost 30mpg. But this is very hard to do. I usually find myself whipping in and out of traffic at speeds much greater than the limit. If you have a stage 3 and are getting 30mpg then you didn't need it to start with.
Now if I could only figure how to fix the "self-intersecting topology" error I'm getting. I wish Clive Sandhurst was still here....
Chuck
>From ep502ca@pts.mot.com Mon Jun 14 13:20 PDT 1993
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:11:19 -0400 (EDT)
>From: ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2751 P7091)
Subject: Stage 3 kit
To: jan@lipari.usc.edu
Message-Id: <9306142011.AA26319@pts4.pts.mot.com>
X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Jan,
Well I finally got my car running good (?). My first comment is that even
with 200+ hp I think the Corrado could use more power. Is it fun to drive?
Yes. On curvy roads the car is probably a blast. For straight lines it needs
to either go on a diet or gain some more power. My big problem appeared to
be nothing more than engine timing. I was running 8-9 degrees retarded. I had
a friend drive the car and his comment was that he though the car was too fast
and that it had too much body roll. I'll agree with the body roll but I guess
it's like anything else. After awhile you get used to the speed and it seems
slow. He thought the car felt like it had an easy 200 hp. Oh well..now if I
can fix the oil leaks the rattles and the strange noise from the back strut.
And what about the way the exhaust noise changes (gets deper) when you hit
a bump or have 2 or more people in the car??
Can you resuse the valve cover gaskets or do you shell out $26 everytime the cover is off?
I sympathise for all those people who said their stage 2 Corrados were increadibly fast. Yeah maybe compared to my 59 bug. I guess driving a 944 turbo with a modified engine (300+ hp) spoiled me. Looks like the Corrados for sales as the Porsche has been offered to me cheap. Hell, they don't cost anymore to maintain. Parts for VWs are outrageous (just like the Porsche). Might as well stick with the beter car if they're going to cost the same to keep on the road....
Chuck
,,,
(. .)
__________________________________.oOO--(_)--OOo.___________________________
| |
| _ /| Chuck Actor ------- __o |
| \`0_o'' Oop, ep502ca@pts.mot.com ------- _`\<,_ |
| -( )= Ack! Motorola Paging - Boynton Beach, FL ------- (*)/ (*) |
| U (407)364-2069 fax (407)364-2028 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 3 21:03 PDT 1995
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 1995 00:00:55 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Hulda Jowett <hjowett@nasc.mass.edu>
Subject: Re: More Corrado Mods
In-Reply-To: <9507032313.AA05829@newssun.med.miami.edu>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
Cc: corrado-l@teleport.com
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I had a renault turbo intercooler in my G60 which came with a high speed fan that came on above 4 psi. That was an involved project. You prbably could find a fan to fit the stock cooler somehow. I was talking with Turbo Tim about it awhile back. Arron at Nuespped was thinking about a fan kit along time ago but droped the idea.
You can cut a hole behind the intercooler to help improve airflow. Although I don't really know if it helps. Some people say that once you get going, high pressure builds in front of the tire and prevents much air from flowing through. ABT included a vent in their G60 hop up kit, so I don't know, maybe it does help. Anyway, if you think your up to some fabricating, I'll give you some more info on thr intercooler setup that I had, or maybe I'll brainstorm a little bit on installing a fan on the stock cooler. There's alot that can be done. later
Brian 93 VR6
> Re: the intercooler
fan >
> I am interesting in modifing the intercooler on my g60, especially since I live
> in Florida, and it is very hot here during the summer, and the car is SLOW!
> Any info would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Later,
> Mike
> mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu
>
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 3 09:10 PDT 1995
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 11:58:33 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Hulda Jowett <hjowett@nasc.mass.edu>
Subject: Re: More Corrado Mods
In-Reply-To: <9507031358.AA01880@newssun.med.miami.edu>
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Status: RO
I saw a G60 at the shows that has done this mod. He did it himself though. It was not the Nuespeed kit. He ran a hose from the boost valve to the t-body hose just like in the picture. You can also adjust the bypass valve for more part throttle boost, your gas mileage may suffer accordingly ( Rallye Golfs don't even have the bypass valve ).
Another mod you may want to try is a high speedfan for the intercooler. I had a custom cooler on my G60 that had a fan, worked great. later
Brian 93 VR6
>
> I was reading through the new EC and noticed the review of th "Corrado Gen2
> Fuel Enrichment" Package from APS...
> I talked to Aaron @ Neuspeed a few months back about this product, and he
> was very optimistic about the gains that it produces in a 40k+ mile old
> Corrado since the bypass valve for the boost starts getting sloppy...
> What he also said, and it isn't in the article, that there is/will be a way to
> tweak the new valve close later than normal---->more boost without a smaller
> pulley on some corrados! He mentioned that you need to have a less restrictive
> intake (as in a P/Q Flow)...
> Has anyone tried it yet?????? At $199 it doesn't seem bad, if it does what all
> of the above...
>
> Tim:::I have made the mistake of getting the BOGEprogas for my G60 (guy at
> Autotech said that his boss has them on his Corrado and they are great) and the
> rears didn't fit with lowered Ho:r springs so I put in the stock ones in the
> back...My Q...the progas shocks are valved soft and then hard when the piston
> moves out of the "comfort" zone but they are made for STOCK A2, and since the
> car is lower (mine is) the ride is very harsh, and in turns, one side moves
> into the "comfort" setting (as the wt goes to the other side of the car) and
> the car feels very un-Corrado like...(I told my mechanic that I should have
> bought the Konis!!! and saved some money by not buying the progas and soon the
> Konis...) Maybe I should just get the TurboGas (which are the stock shocks)?
>
>
> On a more positive note....I put a Mustang 5.0 to shame (it surprised me!)
> I was going on the on ramp on the hwy, and he (late 80's convertible) gets
> right up my bumper (I was going 30 on the ramp) so I pull off to the slow
> lane and look over (this guy looks at the Corrado like it's a spaceship) he
signals as if he wants to race so I nodded my head, but thought that it would be
> close...We are going at about 45 at this time...We take off, and we are even up
> to about 70 and then I start to get ahead...at 100 he is 5+ car lengths back..
> I keep on going until 125...and he is nowhere to be seen :) I slowed down to
> 70 and he was back soon afterwards...I was feeling lucky at this time so I
> signal for us to race again...but he doesn't want to!!!!!!!
>
>
> well enough...
>
> Mike
> mszlabow@newssun.med.miami.edu
>
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Jul 2 19:04 PDT 1995
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 1995 20:59:04 -0500
>From: stevek@execpc.com (Steven M. Kosloske)
Subject: Corrado G60 mods
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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Did the mods on my `90 G60 today. I bought a Stage 1 Chip from AutoTech for $275, and the K&N filter for $42, $10 for shipping. Also got a Euro-Sport exhaust system from EuroSport Accessories for $195+$20 shippiing.
Did the filter first. I would suggest taking the whole air box out if you want to do this, the clips are impossible to get off with the airbox in the car. Remove the air intake from the G-Charger (mine had a little oil in it) and the 2 vacuum lines from the back. There is a rubber band on the inside and back of the box to hold it down. Pop those off and it slides out. Saw the "Made in Mexico" stamp on the metal under the box. Pop the 4 clips and put in the new filter. Close the clips, drop it in, put the 2 bands back on, and reconnect the 2 lines and air intake. Done. Took about half hour because I tried to get just the clips off, and also washed out the airbox. If I did it again, I could do it in 15 minutes easy.
Next was the exhaust. Started by putting the car up on ramps and took off
the clamp at the back of the cat. and bewteen the 2 mufflers. Tried to pry
off the hangers, but it's too difficult, the the new system included all the
hardware, so I just cut the old ones off. Had to cut the pipe in back of
the suitcase muffler and pulled the rear off. The rear muffler was in
pretty good shape, and the exhaust pipes are really thick steel. Next I
cut the front hangers off and dropped the pipe and suitcase muffler. The
muffler had a lot of ruse and few holes, which is why I did this in the
first place, it was getting annoying. The OEM exhaust system is really
heavy, I probably dropped 50 pounds with the new one. The Euro-Sport system
has, in order from the front after the cat., a glass pack resonator,
crossover pipe, turbo rear muffler and tail pipe. All clamps and hangers
are included. The instructions are pretty poor, and I found that the best
way to put it together is to put the pieces on from front to back, pounding
them on one by
one, then putting the clamps on after it's all together. I cut about 4" off
the tail pipe since it stuck out further than the bumper, and it was all
installed correctly. Not sure if it was supposed to be like that, or if I
got the wrong tail pipe, but it looks cool cut short. Sticks out about as
far as OEM, but it's silver. The entire system is 14g steel, pretty big
pipes compared to the OEM system, and "aluminized". It's a pretty good
system for $200. Especially considering the OEM system is $1000.
As for sound, it's definately louder than stock. It has that glass-pack
muffler rumble at idle, and has a louder tone as you accellerate, but only
at the beginning, as you get up to about 25 MPH and let off on the gas, it's
about the same, maybe a little louder than stock. With the windows rolled
up, no radio on, you can only hear it at idle and when you first pump it.
Overall I'm pretty happy with it so far. It took about 2.5 hours to do the
whole thing. A lot of the time was getting the new pipes to fit, they're
really tight.
Last I did the chip. What a job. Took me about 60-75 minutes, I didn't
time it. The instructions are pretty poor, they should include some simple
pictures. First you pry up the cover over the "brain" and remove the cover
over the air intake. It took me about 10 minutes extra to clean it out.
There was about a whole tree worth of leaves stuck in there. I'm going to
start cleaning this out regularly now. After pulling out the intake cover,
you remove one nut for the box frame, pull one vacuum line and snap off the
main electrical cable. (anyone know what the vacuum line is for?) After
this, patience is neccessary, since you have to slide the box and it's metal
frame to the outside of the engine compartment then pull it out. It's a
trick taking it out.
Next you take out 2 screws to get the box off, then 7 screws to open the
box. Next comes the what I thought was the hardest part, getting the
stupid plastic clips off the IC board. Take out 5 screws to get the RF
shield off
the chip, pull the chip, put in the new one and put it all back together.
Again it's tricky shoving it back in the car. Once it's in, it's pretty
easy to reconnect it all and finish. Luckily it started back up so it seems
everything works.
I love the difference in the ride. I haven't done the after measurements yet, but the car seems to have the pull at 2500RPM that it used to have at 3500, which is a big difference. Maybe I think I feel it since I'm pretty excited about the whole thing, but it's definately better. I'll get the "after" times done in the next couple days and post them.
Start to finish the whole job took 4 hours. I wasn't rushing and took a few breaks. If you have all the right tools and manuals you could do it all in 3 hours easy.
Now the car is lighter (only by about 50 pounds), faster and louder. Next step is new springs and shocks, but I'll wait till the stock ones are bad.
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 24 23:54 PDT 1995
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:36:54 -0500 (CDT)
>From: kta@nuchat.sccsi.com (Karl Thompson Kta Associates)
Subject: Re: Gen 2 Fuel Enrichment for G60
In-Reply-To: <01HT3QHM686A002NU0@UG.EDS.COM> from "Jan Vandenbrande" at Jul 20,
95 06:51:19 pm
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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> I have a similar question except that I am running stage III (APE, not
> Neuspeed). My problem is throttle responce...power is there, but
> it takes a while for the thing to "wake up" when I push down
> the accelerator (that's so great about the VR6).
>
> Does anyone else have this problem?
>
I have the Autotech stage II, and have had the same problem. Even before I put in the stage II, it would hesitate before ~3000 rpm. The strange thing is, sometimes it wouldn't. Shifting from 1-2 the boost would stay up on occasion but usually just bog a little. Stage II helped a lot, but the basic problem remained. The boost just would't go above 5 lbs (stock) until a certain rmp, then the car would take off.
Going by what was said in EC about the kit, I went about trying out some mods. The idea is to prevent the idle/boost valve from venting the bypass tube into the exhaust manifold. So I tried the following:
As for the fuel enrichment, I'm of the opinion that it's needed for their kit since they kludged a fix in the first place. The Autotech does fuel enrichment through the ECU, and should be ok. A new sensor is not going to allow more fuel through the same injectors, etc. Besides, they put it in for part-throttle boost. I hardly ever get part throttle boost, except cruising at say 100mph. Not worth $200 for the air bypass setup alone.
I've only had this mod for 1 day so I'll keep you posted.
-maurice (90 G60)
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jul 25 17:27 PDT 1995
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:57:54 -0400
>From: davidtam@interlog.com (David K. Tam)
Subject: Re: Gen 2 Fuel Enrichment for G60
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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>> I have a similar question except that I am running stage III (APE, not
>> Neuspeed). My problem is throttle responce...power is there, but
>> it takes a while for the thing to "wake up" when I push down
>> the accelerator (that's so great about the VR6).
>>
>> Does anyone else have this problem?
>>
>
I just got off the phone with Aaron at Neuspeed asking him about the fuel enrichment kit. First of all it was really nice for him to return my call, I never expected it and he call me twice to get to me here in Canada. My question was what the kit would really do for my Stage I G60. The answer was throttle response for all G60 from stock to Stage III cars for both APS and APE kits. I am not going into details, he pretty well said what was written in EC. I am going to give it a try, if anyone gets this kit earlier give us a response/comment on the Corrado list.
Regards.
David
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jul 26 11:36 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:40:13 -0500 (EST)
>From: Pete Kummer <S31207%MOTHER@utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: Help with APS Fuel Enrichment Kit
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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Could someone please explain to me how the APS fuel enrichment kit works? I've read and reread the EC article, and am still bamboosled! It looks like the kit rerouts the intake to teh idle stab from the bypass duct to the boost duct. I am guessing that the pressure the idle stab "feels" will be greater now. Is this true? How does this help? And then there's the fuel enrichment "hobbs switch". What's that? I understand (from the article that this adds fuel during high boost non-full throttle conditions. Do I need this even though I don't have a smaller pulley?
Also, there is an adjustment for the boost bypass valve, but bentley says "do not change from factory position", but then goes on to tell how to check & change using some funky protractor & arrow. Anyway, has anyone ever fooled with this to increase boost by preventing the valve from opening at "factory" positon?
One more thing, in EC, is says that the idle stab can be adjusted to some extent, but this new kit bypasses it all together. Does anyone know what this "adjustment" entails? Can I get away with adjusting this valve & not shelling out 200 bucks for a lousy t-fitting a ft long piece of hose, some tie-wraps and a relay switch (I think that's what that "Hobbs" switch is).
Thanks in advance.
Pete Kummer
s31207%mother@utrcgw.utc.com
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 31 15:51 PDT 1995
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 13:43:16 -0500 (CDT)
>From: kta@nuchat.sccsi.com (Karl Thompson Kta Associates)
Subject: Re: Help with APS Fuel Enrichment Kit
In-Reply-To: <01HTBQU7XY4200EPXW@utrcgw.utc.com> from "Pete Kummer" at Jul 26,
95 12:40:13 pm
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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>
> Could someone please explain to me how the APS fuel enrichment kit
> works? I've read and reread the EC article, and am still bamboosled!
> It looks like the kit rerouts the intake to teh idle stab from the
> bypass duct to the boost duct. I am guessing that the pressure the idle
This is true. The bypass tube "T" is plugged, as well. (where the hose to the idle stab. used to go)
> stab "feels" will be greater now. Is this true? How does this help?
Letting air through the bypass tube into the intake reduces boost. The valve opens up when the ECU thinks you don't need any more boost. By taking the bypass tube out of the loop (the valve at the throttle body is closed at full throttle) boost is maximized.
The only reason the idle valve gets its air from the boost tube is for idle control.
> And then there's the fuel enrichment "hobbs switch". What's that? > I understand (from the article that this adds fuel during high boost > non-full throttle conditions. Do I need this even though I don't have > a smaller pulley?
Maybe, but I can't see a high boost part-throttle situation. The boost does not occur until the last 1/2 inch of gas pedal position, anyway. At full throttle the microswitch on the throttle body enriches the mixture, so if you want to go fast, floor it. (Maybe in autocross things are different)
>
> Also, there is an adjustment for the boost bypass valve, but bentley
> says "do not change from factory position", but then goes on to tell
> how to check & change using some funky protractor & arrow. Anyway,
> has anyone ever fooled with this to increase boost by preventing the
> valve from opening at "factory" positon?
No, but I think that you can change the point at which boost occurs. My
worry is that by adjusting it too far, the valve opens again at full throttle,
limiting boost.
>
> One more thing, in EC, is says that the idle stab can be adjusted to
> some extent, but this new kit bypasses it all together. Does anyone
> know what this "adjustment" entails? Can I get away with adjusting this
> valve & not shelling out 200 bucks for a lousy t-fitting a ft long piece
> of hose, some tie-wraps and a relay switch (I think that's what that
> "Hobbs" switch is).
I haven't tried adjusting the valve, but did bypass it altogether for $0. What i did was insert a plug into the bypass tube where the hose to the idle stab. hooks up. Then I put the hose back on. The effect is the same as just plugging up the hose. That way no air can come into the air stab or out of the bypass tube. Has the same effect as the kit (w/out fuel enrichment, which I don't think is necessary @full throttle). I did have to adjust the idle screw (on the back of the intake manifold) to keep it from stalling. This is why they use the boost tube to supply air to the stab. valve. I'm going to do this as soon as I get some time, but for now I know what $200 buys.
Boost is much more consistent, and a little higher as well. Boost does not
drop at redline, but keeps going. I can now crawl along at 1500 rmp in 1st
without bobbing my head back and forth, too. It's worth the trouble, and
you can't beat the price.
-maurice (90 G60)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Pete Kummer
> s31207%mother@utrcgw.utc.com
>
>
Article 1363 of rec.autos.vw:
Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V6.1; site bbs.ug.eds.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Power Chips for Corrados
Message-ID: <3vk661$5la$3@mhade.production.compuserve.com>
>From: Randy <76412.3441@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1 Aug 1995 03:14:09 GMT
References: <ragnaroek1995Jul27.224014.15677@news2.compulink.com>
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 5
With the G60, the Autothority Chip is much better than the Neuspeed. (it's cheaper through Autotech) I've never compared two VR6 chips, but the Autothority I did try and it makes some difference though nowhere like the enormous difference the G60 chip makes.
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Aug 22 09:15 PDT 1995
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 09:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jan Vandenbrande <jan@UG.EDS.COM>
Subject: G60 Idle By Pass stuff
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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By now most of us have heard of Aaron new "Generation 2" Idle by pass doo hickey to alleviate the idle bypass valve leaks robbing us of our much needed power.
Apparently, Dana of Autotech is working on something similar.
All it is, is a one way valve that you insert between the idle
valve and the high pressure side (or something) rather than
Aaron's by pass system.
They both would seem to achieve the same result in different ways.
Not a plug for either one, just want y'all to be informed about the alternatives and what's cooking, don't know which works "best".
--
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Aug 23 09:55 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Alex Lewin <lewin@vgi.com>
Subject: Neuspeed vs. APE: followup
In-Reply-To: <9508231625.AA00403@kojak.vgi.com>
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
X-Sender: lewin@hawkeye
To: Corrado List <corrado-l@teleport.com>, danny@ikos.com
Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com
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A few days ago, I posted something about my understanding of the differences between the Neuspeed and APE Stage II kits.
Imagine my surprise when I picked up the phone just now, and it was Aaron Neumann from Neuspeed!
He took a nice chunk of time to provide me a wonderfully detailed explanation of what's going on with the ECU, valves, Neuspeed Stage II, etc.. I am grateful to him for this, even more so because his only motivation was setting the record straight, since I already have the APE stuff!
My previous understanding was just plain *wrong*. Apologies to him, and also to those who listened too closely to what I said.
Here's a summary of what he told me, to the best of my understanding.
For anyone who wants the real story, he encourages you to *call him*.
Alex
Here is my original, somewhat misguided post:
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
> To: corrado-l@teleport.com, danny@ikos.com
> Subject: Re: chip and other stuff
> Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com
>
> Dany Khalil <danny@ikos.com> sez:
>
> > I have a stock G60 and was wondering if anyone recommends
> > a stage I upgrade over another. I read the faq and I can't
> > find what I am looking for. the APE chip is $375 and
> > neuspeed is $255. is the APE worth the 120 bucks extra??
> > now, regardless of price, can anyone recommend one chip
> > (based on personal experience say)?
>
> I had the APE chip ("Stage I") for a while. Now I have the APE Stage II, which
> consists of a smaller pulley, a higher-pressure fuel pressure regulator, and a
> different chip.
>
> Stage I alone made a BIG difference in drivability and fahrfergnuegen. Made a
> noticeable difference in performance, too. Easy enough to install, once you get
> the $!@%^! clips off the HVAC air intake.
>
> I have no experience with the Neuspeed chip.
>
> I am inclined to believe, however, that the APE chip would work better, based
> on the fact that APE sells different chips to you depending on whether you have
> a smaller pullley, different cam, etc., whereas Neuspeed is "one chip fits all".
> Also, the APE Stage II increases fuel flow with the higher-pressure FPR, which
> is what the Bosch FI book suggests, whereas the Neuspeed kit increases fuel flow
> by tricking the cold start valve, which the Bosch FI book *specifically*
> recommends *against*.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Aug 23 09:53 PDT 1995
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:41:15 -0400
>From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: chips from APE and Neuspeed G-60
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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In a message dated 95-08-22 11:38:08 EDT, Alex writes:
>I am inclined to believe, however, that the APE chip would work better,
based
>on the fact that APE sells different chips to you depending on whether you
>have a smaller pullley, different cam, etc., whereas Neuspeed is "one chip
fits
>all".
This is a great way to sell chips. APE gets you to buy 3 different chips when you only need one. APE many years back started with very agressive timing in their chips and depended on the knock system to take care of the detonation. This did not work and is why many people complained about pinging with APE chips. Over the years they have slowly become more conservative and now have timing values close to the same as Neuspeeds. Neuspeed designed their chip to work with 92 octane fuel and their timing advance allows you to use 1 chip for all stages. The factory chip is designed to be able to run 14 psi as there are fuel value's built into it to allow it to provide enough fuel at that boost. What the chip does is increase timing and some fuel to help cool combustion temps which are caused by the increased boost. If any of you are so convinced that the APE chip is so much better I will send you a Neuspeed chip to try in your G-60. Try it for a few weeks and then put your old one back in and send the Neuspeed one back. We are also looking for anyone with a APE chip in their G-60 who lives close to ND to come down and have us do a back to back test. We need one that has the stage 2 or 3 kit. We will also test the pressure regulator so you need to have your stock one also. Neuspeeds believes there is no need for the regulator as the G-60 was designed as a supercharged system and most of the car models tuners are changing them on are aftermarket turbo's or superchargers added to a system that was normally aspirated. The fuel values are in the chip and the system stock is already designed to deliver enough fuel. There are even enough fuel values in the stock program to be increased for a 2.0 liter engine. Raising the pressure also increases the chance of leaks and fire. The Bosch regulator APE uses boost the pressure about .5 bar.
>Also, the APE Stage II increases fuel flow with the higher-pressure FPR,
which
is what the Bosch FI book suggests, whereas the Neuspeed kit increases fuel
flow
by tricking the cold start valve, which the Bosch FI book *specifically*
recommends *against*.
Corrado's do not use cold start valves and the Bentley book was most likely
refering to CIS systems or for non-boosted factory systems where the pressure
may help.
The enrichment set-up from Neuspeed takes care of the lean fuel condition
between part throttle and full throttle. The bypass tube prevents boost
leakage at the idle stabalizer valve, up to 2 psi more boost is possible. See
the August issue of European car pg.62 on the Gen2 update.
**TT**
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Aug 27 22:14 PDT 1995
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>From: Hulda Jowett <hjowett@nasc.mass.edu>
Subject: Re: APS Stage II HP kit installed but...
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>
> Just installed my Stage II kit yesterday. After driving it for a day it
> feels like I brought a new car, the throttle response and power is amazing.
> There is just one problem. Occasionally at 1/2 or full throttle the
> power/boost seems to cut off for a split of a second and then kick in
> again. It feels like a turbo lack but I can feel the lost of power before it
> kicks in. I have disconnected the battery hoping to reset the computer for
> the added boost but the problem still exist. Has anyone experienced this or
> any suggestions?
I also experienced this on my G60 when i installed the kit. You have to adjust a screw on the Hobbs switch that came with the kit. Call Aaron and he'll tell you exactly what you have to do. I think the engine is cutting the fuel off because it senses the motor going past the factories max. boost setting. Easy fix.
Brian 93 VR6
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Sep 5 12:50 PDT 1995
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>From: Hulda Jowett <hjowett@nasc.mass.edu>
Subject: Re: Rally Golf Intercooler
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I just recieved EC. That G60 GTI was at Waterfest 95. Very nicly put together if I recall corectly. The intercooler he has was for G60 GTIs with AC. The real Rallye Golf intercooler is very large (about the size of your radiator) and mounts up ahead of the radiator. Also required to fit it is the speacial Rallye Golf grill.
In hindsight, I guess my custom cooler was not all that easy to install. It took some time. I wish somone would come out with a highspeed fan for the stock cooler. My fan really did work, helped alot at those stoplights.
Brian 93 VR6
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Sep 5 11:04 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 13:44:13 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Hulda Jowett <hjowett@nasc.mass.edu>
Subject: Re: Sluggish acceleration
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> > I noticed that too ...Here in South Fla, wherre the humidity is 70-100%
> > and temps in the summera are in the 90's, the G60 feels really slow! I
>
> A hot day will slow down a G60 a bit.
> Did you ever touch those tubes coming out of the G60 after a good
> drive? HOT, very HOT.
>
> Has anyone looked into those exhaust manifold wraps that will leave the
> engine bay cooler? (See latest issue of Compact Sports Car or something
> like it).
I also wrapped all the intake tubes with this insulated foil type stuff. The bypass tube is particularly important because it passes very close to the exaust manifold, thuss picking up even more heat. Can't say what the power gains are, but you'll find most turbo charged racers do it. I never got around to trying the exaust wrap, I think most cars would beniftit though.
Brian 93 VR6
>
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Sep 6 00:48 PDT 1995
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>From: radog60@ix.netcom.com (Qui Le )
Subject: Re: Neuspeed gen2 kit
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I didn't experience 'HUGE
>CHANGES' but I do feel a subtle difference. Is it worth it? Um...
not
>sure.
Ditto with Tom there, I too did not feel any major differences. But then I didn't think that I could get my car to do any better. With 80K and AT Stage II it's sooo smooooth and rev happy already(knock on wood). Whether or not it's worth it depends on the outcome of the installation. Judging by the diversity of impressions, seems like one will never really know until he/she put's the a kit on.
>BTW, what are any possible complications we gen2-equipped G-60's might
>encounter? Is something getting stressed more than it was before the
>mod?
>
>Tom
Complications? I hope none. My understanding is that if anything it would avoid further (possible) complications.
-Qui
Red '90 G60
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Sep 5 19:59 PDT 1995
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>From: Tom Herzog <therzog@willamette.edu>
Subject: Re: Neuspeed gen2 kit
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> >just that me taking it off the car would make it a) undriveable, and 2)
> >would cost be hundreds of dollars in stock hoses.
>
> You must of understood if you do not like it I would love to have the kit
> back so you can try it without. Thats why these are test kits as we want
> your feedback to determine what products we carry.
I was kidding about all that returning business... I like it and want to keep it but am not sure if I recommend it yet... just made me laugh to think of trying to get my car working again after doing all that cutting and sweating over it! I'll do the best I can to describe my reactions. Judging from what the other G-60 owner posted on his reactions, I do see some changes.
The 'vibrations' he referred to are something I personally attribute to more torque. And once I found out I had a Stage II kit in my car (opened it to put the Stage I chip in.. saw a stage II.. you can imagine my reaction) and got it working properly, I could feel more of a vibration under acceleration. I always joke that a supercharger or turbocharger is this little guy sitting there blowing into the engine saying "you're big! you're big!" and I guess I would categorize this 'vibration' feeling as a more exaggerated small-engine-thinking-it's-big feeling. And the gen2 kit makes this feeling a little stronger (you can feel it in the seat of all places and the in sound of the car) before half throttle.
I think (from what I have heard -- never found the August EC, you (Tim) sent me April) that this kit is especially for higher mile engines. My engine has 4500 miles. Sure, the supercharger, t-body, etc have 55000 miles, so maybe there's something there too. I didn't experience 'HUGE CHANGES' but I do feel a subtle difference. Is it worth it? Um... not sure. Maybe if I read the article to really understand what is going on here (getting back boost that would otherwise have been bled off up to about half-throttle?) I could be more specific.
BTW, what are any possible complications we gen2-equipped G-60's might encounter? Is something getting stressed more than it was before the mod?
Tom
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Sep 5 17:57 PDT 1995
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 20:43:26 -0400
>From: Corradolvr@aol.com
Subject: Gen2 Fuel Enrichment Kit !!!!
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This past weekend I installed the Neuspeed Gen2 Fuel Enrichment kit in my '90 G60. Oh what a difference!
Installation o the kit was very straightforward. Though I did have
to reference European Car's August '95's article to make sure I cut the
intake hose in the proper location. Also, I had a slight problem with
the placement of the Hobbs switch because of a previously installed
alarm system on the passenger shock tower. By tinkering with the alarm, and
the vapor hose bracket, everything fit just fine.
I used the scotch-loc wire splicers provided even though many people
don't like them. Perhaps in the future I will change them with a more
'positive' connection. The one complaint I have is with the stainless steel
tee. It looks real nice on the outside, but upon further inspection, I found
that the inside was dirty, and the joint needed to be deburred. There were
metal particles hanging on where the small 3/4" outlet was cut (inside, by
the weld). I cleaned it up with some emory paper, and then washed the whole
tee. I didn't want those metal particles sucked into my engine!
All in all it was a simple job. I spent about an hour doing the install
( took my time, checked everything 3,4 times). It could be done in 15-20
mins.
After install, I started the engine to check for leaks & to warm it up.
The car started as easily as before (just a twitch of the ignition key
brings it to life), and idled as before. When I got in the car, I felt a
bit more vibration thru the seat. Was I dreaming? More on this later... I
drove the car a short distance and knew the kit was just what my 70,000mi
engine needed! The additional power comes on at around 2600 rpm, and KEEPS
CLIMBING to the redline! The pull is VERY noticable. The pull does not seem
to increase linearly, but rather in steps. Not that this is bad, but rather,
different. I wonder if those 'steps' are points at which the fuel is
enrichened? Also, the engine seems to vibrate more than I've ever noticed.
Why? Dunno, but it feels like Power Vibrations! I wish I had run time tests
before & after, but I was to anxious to get the kit in. In fact, I brought
the kit with me on vacation, and installed it while away from home. The trip
home was definitely more exciting! Fuel economy seems to be about the same.
Though the extra boost is fun to play with! I got about 26mpg with the car
packed to the gills, 2 bikes on top, traveling at 65-75mph up & down hills on
the Taconic Pkwy (Taconic is a hilly twisty road in NY :-)
My Opinion, Everyone who enjoys driving there G60's (that includes everyone
right?) should get this kit. Especially those with high mileage cars. I
think New Dimensions sells them at a discount to the list!
Ok, I gotta go, my perma-grin is beginning to fade. I have to restore it by
taking my Corrado for a spin.
Pete Kummer
s31207%mother.utrcgw.utc.com
(sent from corradolvr@aol.com)
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Sep 1 18:26 PDT 1995
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 18:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Herzog <therzog@willamette.edu>
Subject: Neuspeed gen2 kit
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Well, I just (haven't even washed my hands yet!) got done installing the generation2 "Fuel Enrichment Kit" for the G60. Not sure what I think yet... only drove it to make sure I didn't screw anything up. I'll hopefully be able to write more about the performance but I don't have a boost gage, so it won't be too technical.
I've got a 1990 G60 with the Autothority Stage II boost kit that was on the car for probably most of the original 50,962 miles before I got a new engine from VW about 4500 miles ago. Everything else (engine wise) is stock.
Here's stuff about the install. To be honest, this was the first mechical install I have ever done. Not that bad, really. I haven't even had the air box off. The instructions are easy to follow and there's a nice picture. I had to call ND a few times just to be sure on a couple of things, but I am paranoid when it comes to that stuff.
Joe at ND recommended using the stock hose that runs to the idle stablilizer - it's got a funny elbow in it though. I accidentally ripped it so I had to use the orange heater hose Neuspeed supplied in the kit. They are non standard clamps and I didn't have any good cutters, so I had to use force. Oh well. Also, Joe recommended not usng the scotch locks on the wires that the new pressure switch wires plug into, rather to go to the plastic connector and reclamp them with new metal connectors. I was impatient. You know what I did. It's okay for now (and probably forever - the scotch locks that is).
Oh, the first thing I noticed was that before the car warmed up, quick taps on the accelerator did NOT sound good at al.. really sputtery, but that went away. Not sure if it's cause of something to so with the first ime I ran it after the install or if it is permanent. I'll let you all know.
Anyway, went okay, might be a little more perky, but not sure yet!
Tom
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Sep 8 10:01 PDT 1995
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>From: Andy <gajewski@ug.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: Gen 2 Fuel Enrich Installed
Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com
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I installed the Gen Fuel Enrichment. Now just the Pulley to go.
Installation Notes:
Problem:
Impressions:
Contrary to the other 2 posters, I found that the kit made the car even
smoother than it was before. The low end lag is even less distinctive.
Maybe I connected something wrong?
Tests:
Not done yet.
BTW, The car has 56K Km on it.
Andy
--
--. \/ .----------#####**********] Corrado & GTI FUN-atic (Don't o \o
--.\/\/.---G60----#####**********] forget to bike,ski,windsurf, ,-\ \--
---....-----------#####**********] sail) gajewski@ug.cs.dal.ca 0\-0 \/
See the Corrado WWW Page at: http://ug.cs.dal.ca/~gajewski/corrado.html \.
>From whquek@acs.ucalgary.ca Fri Sep 8 00:38 PDT 1995
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>From: Wei Hsiung Quek <whquek@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: audi 5000 intake on g60 done!
In-Reply-To: <01HTC1OA4S9E003UJM@UG.EDS.COM>; from "Jan Vandenbrande" at Jul
26, 95 5:38 pm
To: jan@UG.EDS.COM (Jan Vandenbrande)
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Status: RO
hi jan:
i spoke with you about some time ago regarding the
audi intake swap on the g60. well, i went ahead and
did it despite your warnings that the gains may not be
worth the money.
what we did was swap the intake for the audi turbo one,
port and polished the head and did a three angle job on the
seats. also dropped in a shrick 260 but did not change
to the autothority stage 3 chip.
well, the car sure is faster now, but unfortunately, we didn't see as much gain as with the stage 2 chip. we are able to burn rubber very easily on first gear throughout the rev range.
i drove ron's vr6 synchro the same day and was awestruck by the power of the damn thing. it didn't feel the same as the golf 3 vr6 i drove half a year ago-- it was faster.
well, i know i still can't beat a 5.0 yet but what else do you think is out there? we are flat broke now but we need brakes. any suggestions at all on aftermarket crossdrilled rotors? is there a wilwood 4pot system for vw?
you also mentioned a more efficient intercooler. where can i find out more about that?
sincerely
wei quek
>From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Sep 27 16:46 PDT 1995
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>From: kaz@brainiac.com (Kevin Brisson)
Subject: Installed the Gen 2 Kit
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This weekend I sucessfully installed the Gen 2 Fuel Enrichment on my '92 G60. It doesn't seem like it did much of anything although it seems to be breathing better above 3000 rpm when accelerating hard. When I take off in 1st and second the car seems to squat back more than I remember. Anyway, I only have 47k miles unlike the others who installed the kit and have more miles.
Here are my comments and some problems:
Kevin
'92 _______________________
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 12:05:24 -0400
>From: TurboTim@aol.com
Subject: Re: Installed the Gen 2 Kit
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In a message dated 95-09-27 09:06:57 EDT, Kevin writes refering to the Gen 2 kit:
>2. I did not like the way the instructions tell you to move the plastic >holder for the vapor lines down on the bottom stud. Then there's only one >stud holding the thing at an angle. I opted to drill a hole just above the >top stud. Makes more sense and looks much better too.
Faxed your comments to Aaron and here is some of his response, he also was not sure if you had any other mods as I an not either.
As for the vapor lines he did not want to force people to drill so decided to do it that way but he may change the directions to say that as an option you may want to drill a hole and do it your way.
>
>3. Why didn't the kit have Scotch T's instead of those bulky ScotchLoks.
>Anyway the wiring is solid and semi-neat with the 'Loks.
With the scotch t's you would have 2 connections instead of 1. 1 on the T and the other on the connector that would plug into it. He did not say this but I just realiazed it. We (ND) throw the Scotch junk away and go directlly to the pin and use a factory connector and crimp it with the factory tool. Of corse many do not have the tools so the next best would be solder and shrink tube. The scotch things work but I have never liked them as some of the abuse and failures we see in the shop are downright funny. ie... On James Slys Golf2 someone who I will not slam installed the front turnlens wiring using these and when 1 did not work I wiggled the wires/scotch connection and low and behold they started working. In the outside/engine enviroment I have seen to many failures as inside the car away from the elements they seem to work OK.
>4. I used the original hose from the idle stab. valve. No need to have
>that ugly orange hose in the kit. The fact. hose has an odd bend in it
>though not a problem.
>
We do the same thing and Aaron may include a new factory hose instead or include in the directions that reusing the stock is ok. note: many times the factory hose is brittle and can crack when trying to bend it to fit.
>5. The rubber plug was too short and I had to ream it out with a dremel >tool because the diameter of the opening was too small.
You want it to fit verrry tight as it also has a clamp so being a tad short has no ill effect except for looks. Simply a matter of what plugs are available is why that one is used. We have no problems on the ones we have installed.
>
>6. According to the instructions and the picture in EC magazine the T is
>supposed to fit on a straight part of the hose. I have a PLASTIC tube
>running all the way to the back of the valve cover, then there is a 90 deg
>elbow to the throttle body. I had to install the T in the middle of the
>bend and this was not easy. Luckily the one chance I had to cut the hose
>was ok. Did Neuspeed check this out first on the '92 G60 !?
Aaron fessed up to this one and said there are not that many of those models out with that style. He talked about a different design for those but the cost would probally be much higher. It seems to only be a small production so at this time nothing can be done.
As for your comment "It doesn't seem like it did much of anything"
What other mods are done on your C?? If it's stock then the improvements may not be as noticable as ones with boost kits. A great way to test it for yourself is to disable it and drive for a week then hook it back up and drive it. just a thought.
**TT** (**AN**)
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